FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:20 pm

S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Hey guys. I am new here and have been diving into safe manipulation. I manipulated a direct entry fence Sentry 1250 and a La Gard 3330. I had two failed attempts which each lasted five or more hours on the La Gard, each time learning the combination and studying how the lock responded. I read Oldfast's posts regarding the shadowing effect and on the next attempt I managed to get it open in about four hours. After that, I did it again with another combination in two hours. Then my S&G 6730 arrived... I mounted it up and went to work. After many hours I finally gave up. I asked for the number and studied my graphs. I had actually found number two and three at one time (I ended up abandoning three for some reason) but one had eluded me entirely. After this I decided to try again and eight hours worth of manipulation later, I took the cover off and had a look. Turns out that again I had found the second number and third number. I had somehow determined that the second gate was on wheel one though. :???: Needless to say the lock wasn't opening. What I am looking for is someone with more experience to have a look at these graphs and let me know what they are thinking. I am not even going to show my first try's graphs. I think part of my problem was having a hard time recognizing the right contact point precisely and consistently as well as this dial and ring reading much different than my La Gard. I initially thought that this guy would go smoothly compared to the La Gard but I have since been proven wrong. The gate signatures are not as clear and in many cases the left contact point remains silent even during a gate signature. I know practice makes perfect and I am sure I will get it eventually but I want to study what I have done and figure out where I went wrong. I obviously am also having technical difficulties with high/low tests. I realize that this a recurring theme here and I am considering not doing them anymore and rather always using isolation instead. I am also thinking that this lock is just too precise and the dialing tolerance too tight to make graphs every 2.5 increments. I notice Oldfast in particular does every 2 increments unless he notices the lock is particularly sloppy.

Now, looking at my graphs, I noted an obvious gate on my first AWL rotation which turns out was on wheel 2. I also noticed two potential gates, one at 48 and another at 73 or so. Interestingly enough, number one turned out to be 73! I wish I pursued that a little bit more. 48 was nothing. I decided to test the gate at 34.5. I moved one wheel at a time from the number and noted when the contact area moved, as soon as I moved wheel three it opened up so I decided that it was on wheel 3, it wasn't. In hindsight, I think I may have accidentally moved all of the wheels off the target when I did this... After doing a graph of 1 and 2 AR with 3 on L33, I noticed the gate again around 33-35. At this point I amplified it, made up my mind it was at 34.5 and through a high/low test tagged it to wheel 1. Several graphs in, I located wheel three's gate at 28.5. After a bunch of brute forcing, how/low tests, etc. I finally gave up. Obviously I was quite close. In hindsight I think I see a slight gate signature with the peaks on either side but no fall on the right contact point and the fall but no rise on the left contact point around the area where the first wheel's gate is.

I'm sorry if this is long and rambly, I am just trying to explain the manipulation to the best of my ability and my thought process so it can be critiqued. Fire away!
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:27 pm

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

graph1.png

graph2.png

graph3.png

graph4.png

graph5.png

graph6.png

graph7.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:29 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

At it again! I have been going about 5-6 hours so far and have deduced #2 is R73. I started with an AWL rotation and noted several potential gates, including this one (L74) but nothing was definitive. I did an AWR rotation, hoping things would be more obvious and R73 is almost certainly a gate. I moved one wheel at a time off of it (correctly this time) and it is almost certainly W2. W2 has indicated first each time so far on this lock. I still have a couple suspects from the first graph and doing another graph now, 1&3AR, 2@R73 and things are looking good. Much more graph definition and the contact points are tighter. I am confident that I at least have wheel two. Now hopefully I can zero in on one or three. This lock is being a real challenge for me so far but that is what I enjoy about this. I have spent nearly 100% of my time on this thing since I got it. I even had it on lunch at work. Again constructive criticism as to my technique is much appreciated!
<<

Jaakko Fagerlund

Familiar Face

Posts: 244

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Location: Finland

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:59 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Instead doing 1&3 AR/AL and parking W2, park wheel 1 at something low you know or just pick a random number, then park your W2 and zip through W3 for any suspects or low points. It is quick to go through and if you find a gate, then it is definately wheel 3. Then you can confirm your W2 gate and if both show results, brute force W1 for open.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:02 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Sounds like sound logic! Thank you! I am already half way through this graph though so I think I will finish it but in the future that sounds very logical!
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:11 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

It really is amazing how different but also similar my AWL and AWR graphs are. That little bit of offset from the flys really makes a lot of difference! I am confident I can get this lock this time. I just need to focus and stick with it. I see some graphs and they are so simple and definitive. This thing isn't. It is probably at least some technique as I am very new at this, but I wonder if I just got a particularly tricky lock. I am getting used to reading the dial accurately and consistently as well as finding both contact points accurately. I was contemplating buying a 6741 because I figured the wider dialing tolerance should make it a bit easier to manipulate but bought this because I figured I would learn more from it.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

So this morning I decided to try your idea. Im not done yet but am feeling confident and hopeful. I will keep you posted! Thanks again.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:33 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

I got it open today! Tried your idea, parked wheel one on a low spot, two at it's gate and ran three around left. I found three potential gates, one slightly more convincing than the others at L36. I put two and three on their gates and graphed wheel one. Found a clear gate centered around L54 but no dice. I figured that seeing as how the "gate" on wheel three wasn't super clear maybe it had been off just a touch. I decided to run three around from L34 and it opened on L54-R73-L34! The third gate is really centered on L35 though. Happy to beat this one. Now I need to actually get good at it.
<<

madsamurai

User avatar

Familiar Face

Posts: 162

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:13 am

Location: Germantown, Ohio

Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:28 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Congrats!
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:38 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Thank you! I'm loving this safe thing! Lots to learn and I can tell it will take a very long time to get good.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:16 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

So obviously there was some luck involved but I just got an opening in 34 minutes! Graphed AWR. Found huge gate at R80, ran high/low. Two seemed to be the wheel. Ran it through quick and it was. Parked one and two at R80 and started three AL at the edge of the forbidden zone. Hit the grand canyon at L33 and brute forced wheel one. Opened on L43-R80-L33!
<<

Jaakko Fagerlund

Familiar Face

Posts: 244

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Location: Finland

Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:31 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Congrats :) It is always a good tactic to isolate the problem to one wheel only if everything else fails.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Thank you! I am starting to get it. My touch is improving for one thing and my dialing is getting much more efficient. I am also learning to spot less obvious gates.
<<

Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 3980

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Mon May 01, 2017 3:28 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

tarboxb wrote:Thank you! I'm loving this safe thing! Lots to learn and I can tell it will take a very long time to get good.

And may I say you're doin' great! You're learning at an incredible pace compared to me, for sure. Keep at it!

tarboxb wrote:.....I initially thought that this guy would go smoothly compared to the La Gard but I have since been proven wrong.....

Haha! Indeed, indeed... how I can relate, lol. Learn this lesson now rather than later, like me.
Assumptions, ego, expectations, etc. usually play a role when approaching a lock... but never
a 'good' role. I've had/have plenty of all three, but NONE of them ever helped me open a lock.
Even the most simple, cheapest pieces of shit locks can give you a big 'ol :fu:

tarboxb wrote:.....I obviously am also having technical difficulties with high/low tests. I realize that this a recurring theme here and I am considering not doing them anymore and rather always using isolation instead.

Not to be redundant, but for the sake of throughness...

I talked of wheel float in your LaGard thread HERE. I also linked you to THIS manipulation.

You'll see a couple things; 1. the idea behind approaching every # in every test configuration
using the SAME direction in which the suspected gate was originally found with. And 2. take
note of the order in which the wheels are tested: 3, 2, then 1 - opposite of the traditional way.
This minimizes rotations making it much more efficient... with the exact same results.

Also, there is something else I did not mention in that manipulation. Traditionally, most people
place all the wheels IN the gate, then throw them one at a time AWAY from the gate. Others
prefer just the opposite - placing all wheels away from the gate, then throwing them into the
gate one at a time. I myself haven't settled on a preference just yet so I can't really weigh in.
Try them both and let us know what you think. I'd love to hear which one you feel brings you
more consistency.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 92

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Mon May 01, 2017 4:17 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Thank you for all of the info, Oldfast! I will make sure to make an intro post when I get around to it. I really am enjoying this hobby. It is very challenging, scientific, and just plain awesome! :P
Next

Return to Safes, Strongboxes & Combination Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware