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Prepping for safe locks

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rusirius

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Posts: 26

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Location: Delaware

Post Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:48 pm

Prepping for safe locks

For those who have seen my intro post you know that I've been picking for a while now, still much to learn, but working on it. :) I've also been looking for a while for a good safe lock to start working with. I've read a fair bit on the process, but never had the good fortune to get my hands on one. Well, technically there's an old data safe here at work that I've played around with (it's my department's safe, so no worries! LOL) but I can't feel ANYTHING on that dial... Even KNOWING where they are... I actually can't even feel ANY of the wheels pick up... Even with JUST the cam the dial turns so stiff that it's impossible (at least for me) to feel ANY change at all. I mean you REALLY have to crank on it to get it to move.

Anyway... So I finally found a terrific bargain on a safe lock off ebay... An ilco 673000... I'm anxiously awaiting for it to arrive...

In the mean time, there's something I've been thinking about and I'm hoping someone here can help me...

So let's say I start my manipulation. I find my contact points let's say at 6 1/4 and 11 1/2. After graphing it out I find that 28 is a number....

Now if I test (38-28-28, 28-38-28, 28-28-38) and find that 28 is the gate on the 3rd wheel (first number in the combo) then the process is fairly clear to me...

I should be able to dial in the first number, then park the other two wheels together and continue my testing while leaving that wheel parked on 28...

Now on the other hand, let's say I found out that the 28 belonged to the 2nd wheel...

Everything I've read has basically indicated that now I'm stuck spinning all 3 numbers in manually... So for instance, 0-28-0, 2.5-28-2.5, 5-28-5, etc....

Is that really the only option??? Not having a lock in my hands I can't really see for sure, but my gut tells me there should be some sort of way to manipulate the wheels in such a way as to get around that?
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femurat

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Posts: 824

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 pm

Location: Italy

Post Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

That would be a waste of time.

I'd test wheel 1 around left while parking wheel 2 and 3 together at right 28.
This way, after I find the gate on wheel 1, I can brute force wheel 3.

Another option would be to park wheel 1 and 2 together at right 28 and test wheel 3 around left. The downside of this method is that brute forcing wheel 1 is a lot slower than brute forcing wheel 3.

Hope this makes sense.

You can read my tutorial and see a practical example.

Good luck :)
Pictures in my posts are gone due to a policy change by my hosting provider that caught me unprepared. I'll work on that. In the meantime left click the image and open it in new tab, you should be able to see the picture, with a selection of unrelated advertising and banners all around it.
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Fritz the Cat

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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:05 pm

Location: Warren Michigan

Post Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:55 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

Good tosee another newcomer to this hobby . I just started manipulation exactly one month ago tomorrow. I haven't had any "lucK" but I've learned a lot here .
I am waiting for my used Sargent Greenleaf 6730 to arrive this week . I ordered one as it was getting difficult to understand the wheel movement without seeing the lock inside like my Ward's 9007 safe . You made a good choice of safe lock as it will help figuring out wheel movement . Have fun :smile:
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rusirius

Familiar Face

Posts: 26

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Location: Delaware

Post Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:15 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

femurat wrote:That would be a waste of time.

I'd test wheel 1 around left while parking wheel 2 and 3 together at right 28.
This way, after I find the gate on wheel 1, I can brute force wheel 3.

Another option would be to park wheel 1 and 2 together at right 28 and test wheel 3 around left. The downside of this method is that brute forcing wheel 1 is a lot slower than brute forcing wheel 3.

Hope this makes sense.

You can read my tutorial and see a practical example.

Good luck :)


There it is! Brilliant! In my mind I KNEW there had to be a way to isolate it, but I just couldn't wrap my head around it... Now it makes perfect sense... Thanks much for that!
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rusirius

Familiar Face

Posts: 26

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Location: Delaware

Post Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

Just out of curiosity, mostly directed at OldFast, but any thoughts are welcome... I found one of OldFast's videos where he was cranking through a pile of master lock combos. :combolock: To be honest, I had kinda completely forgotten about these high school blast from the pasts. While awaiting the arrival and mounting of my ilco, I thought that might be a cool little tide me over thing to play around with.

Could someone elaborate on his technique here? Obviously, he has some way to determine the real gates from the false ones?

**EDIT** Never mind... LMFAO... In going back to watch the video to try to pick up on his technique just by watching I realized that AFTER working through the pile he actually explains his method!
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rusirius

Familiar Face

Posts: 26

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Location: Delaware

Post Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

femurat wrote:That would be a waste of time.

I'd test wheel 1 around left while parking wheel 2 and 3 together at right 28.
This way, after I find the gate on wheel 1, I can brute force wheel 3.

Another option would be to park wheel 1 and 2 together at right 28 and test wheel 3 around left. The downside of this method is that brute forcing wheel 1 is a lot slower than brute forcing wheel 3.

Hope this makes sense.

You can read my tutorial and see a practical example.

Good luck :)


Ok... So maybe I'm overthinking this... but.... At first when I read this I thought I had it... But now I'm not so sure...

If we find out our first located gate is on wheel 2... Let's say at 28... If we park 2 and 3 together at right 28 then check wheel 1 left... What if wheel 3 is the next natural highest point... In other words, no matter how much we check wheel 1 we'll never see a shift because the fence is actually hitting on wheel 3...

Or are you saying that checking all of wheel 1 this way, then realizing it's wheel 3 that we have to explore, then doing that (parking 1 and 2 together at 28) is STILL faster than trying to spin 1 and 3 together while keeping 2 parked?
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femurat

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Posts: 824

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 pm

Location: Italy

Post Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:28 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

That's what I do based on my experience.
I know that there's the risk of mapping wheel 1 and getting nothing. But it's pretty fast if you dial smart. You just need to move wheel 1 a couple numbers and then go back and position the others 2 wheels together.
If you want to check wheels 1 and 3 together you still risk to find nothing because one may mask the other. And it will take you way longer.
It's not worth it.

Another option would be to park wheels 1 and 2 together at the hypothetical gate and map wheel 3 alone. It would be super fast. Even in this case you risk to find nothing because wheel 1 may be masking wheel 3.

Every choice involve a risk. I choose mine and you're free to choose yours :)

Don't over think these problems. Get a lock and start spinning. Even if you find nothing it's still a good exercise.

Cheers :)
Pictures in my posts are gone due to a policy change by my hosting provider that caught me unprepared. I'll work on that. In the meantime left click the image and open it in new tab, you should be able to see the picture, with a selection of unrelated advertising and banners all around it.
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rusirius

Familiar Face

Posts: 26

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Location: Delaware

Post Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:45 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

Got it! All making sense now... And the good news is I just got confirmation that the 673000 I bought was delivered to my house today! So I'll be able to start making a stand for it tonight... Maybe even get a little spinning in!
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femurat

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Posts: 824

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 pm

Location: Italy

Post Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:00 pm

Re: Prepping for safe locks

Great. I suggest you remove the back cover and look at the wheels spinning while you turn the dial. Play with it until you fully understand how it works.

Cheers :)
Pictures in my posts are gone due to a policy change by my hosting provider that caught me unprepared. I'll work on that. In the meantime left click the image and open it in new tab, you should be able to see the picture, with a selection of unrelated advertising and banners all around it.

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