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Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Location: Michigan

Post Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:17 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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DIEBOLD

Not an all out manipulation this time.
More trouble-shooting/dialing diagnostics.

Basically a drop/cash box with a round door atop. Never thought to get
exact measurements... but I do know the door is 8 inches. I'd wager
the width & depth of the box itself to be 2 ft. squared and 3 ft. tall.
No clue on age though. I was told this is maybe 1940's -ish?

Image

I had woke up to two messages that morning. 1) a local business simply stating they had a safe they were unable to open.
And 2) Walter, a locksmith who has become a good friend to me over the last year or so. He wanted me to call him when I
gotta chance. It seemed more than coincidental that these two messages were literally within one minute of each other.

Sure enough, Walt HAD worked on this safe earlier in the week. He'd also recently dropped off a fairly hefty bill that was
yet to be paid. It all seemed rather fishy to me. I told him to say the word and I simply wouldn't return their call. But he
wasn't concerned and in fact urged me to go. So I gave 'em a call. They immediately mentioned Walt had been out
there. They expressed no concerns over his work or the bill they had received. And it sounded like they had every
intention to continue working with him, as they mentioned he was going to track down some replacement parts.
At this point I felt better about it all & headed over. Besides, I might be able to save Walt a 2 hour round trip.
Maybe they were in panic mode & knew I was closer. Or they wanted to avoid adding to the bill. I dunno.

Image

(above & below) You can see how the the round door rotates after dialing the combo.
It rotates CCW within the limit set by the bolt & slot you see. You can then pull it open.

Image

Not long before the guilty stepped forward. Wheel 2 opened 6 incs ahead of its' time.
Further tests reveal yet another shift - w2 now opening 2 incs beyond its' set number.

One scenario might be too much friction/drag between wheels 2&3. Hard to say though
without delving deeper into the lock. As much as I wanted to tear into it for a closer look
and maybe some more photos... I didn't really feel like it was my place. I was done. With
access to their funds they could get back to business as usual. And thankfully the owner
agreed it'd be a good idea to remove the door entirely and set it aside for the time being.

The lock, by the way, is an old Diebold 900. It would look something like THIS one I think.

Image

Image

On Walter's behalf: He is meticulous. He'd brought the door back to his shop and invested
a fair bit of time in servicing the lock. With it working smooth and consistently opening many
times over, he was obviously confident enough to install it again and have it put back into use.
This could've just as easily happened to me. Locks that old can become a little temperamental.

Image


I headed outta there but received a call before getting home.
It was another business - they apparently had TWO safes for me to play with.
Well then, :D this day is shaping up to be an adventure. Stay tuned for more lock-porn.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Gardall Floor Safe

1 of 2 safes I had hoped to open at a business last week.

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Image

I had concerns with the T-handle though. I was almost certain it was no longer connected to the doors' bolt work.
My guess is that someone forcibly turned it in an effort to open the safe, breaking the linkage. Cracking the lock
I feared would be a bit anti-climatic. Nevertheless, I started my spin. Sometime later (yes, it beat me up a bit) -
success! A solid stop at right 94 retracts the locks' bolt......... but the handle proves useless as it spins freely.

Image

Now, if I turned the handle while applying some slight pull/upward pressure, I could feel a couple subtle catches.
Obviously nothing substantial enough to actually retract the bolts though. I also spent some time working with a
neodymium magnet hoping to coax the bolts inward. No luck. Part of the problem too is that I'm not even sure
where the bolts are on this particular door. I mean, I have an educated guess, but not entirely certain. If you
have any other ideas or maybe pictures of the boltwork, lemme know. I can always stop back over there.

Image

Ilco P67 (I believe)
RCP: approximately 8
LRL Right to stop @94

So I guess we'll call this one open.... but not open. lol
A quick coffee break and I was after the second safe.



On a side note: I can understand why some in the profession choose to charge more for floor safes.
It can be backbreaking work. It came on slowly, but by the end of the next day my sciatic nerve had
flared up to a crippling point. Being the idiot/addict that I am, I thought I could still go work on a safe.
After 20 minutes on a 12" stool I literally could not get back up! It was then I realized I had a slightly
larger problem than I had hoped, lol. With some help I managed to get myself & my equipment back
to the car. I crawled into my house and have been there since (today is day 4). On a positive note --
I am happy to at least be able to get to the bathroom and wipe my own ass still. So that's good. LOL
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
<<

Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:11 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Same place of business.... 2nd safe.
Dimensions: 52"T x 31"W x 30"D

Image

Equipped with 2 locks; a mechanical LaGard (unknown model) and an electronic S&G 6120.

I was fairly certain both locks were active. Opening the safe would require both combinations.
Electronics are beyond me - we all knew this from the start. I would tackle the mechanical
lock with the idea of simply getting 'half-way-there'. Opening the LaGard should shave
$100-$200 off their ultimate bill should they choose to pursue what remained.

Image

I've been intensely working with LaGards lately,
so I was excited to go head-to-head with this one.

As I delved in I was really pleased (and surprised actually) with the speed of progress.
I had located a gate for each of the wheels and the fence desperately wanted to drop.
Each of these gates were defined and undeniable. Yet, even after tweeking - no joy.

Deciding to run w1, I begrudgingly left what I knew to be a gate and started working
my way around. Not long before I found another gate... then another... and another.
A total of 5 gates on w1. This prompted me to think over the progressions I'd done
for wheels 2&3. Recalling there was at least a couple promising areas on them...
I now suspected it's quite possible there's 5 gates on each of these wheels too.

Image

The plan now was simple; map out the other two wheels. Once all the gates for all the
wheels are in hand, I can begin dialing through the possibilities to reach an opening.

As luck would have it wheels 1&2 happened to be on their true gates and the lock
unexpectedly opened while I was running w3. Hey, someone's gotta get lucky......
why shouldn't it be me?! Must just be all that 'right-livin' I've been doin', eh? Ha!

Image

CA: approx. 96 - 7
LRL Right to stop 88


Would've loved to lay eyes on this lock and get some photos. Any idea on which LaGard
model it could be? Or, maybe there's a different brand lock attached to this LaGard dial?
Also, I'm horrible at identifying safes. Anyone wanna school me on the make of the safe?

.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MHM

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Familiar Face

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:54 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

These posts genuinely make my day Oldfast. Love 'em.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Ah, that's wonderful to hear Michael. Thank you!
I've been havin' a blast this winter. Time of my life!
Half the fun is sharing what I can of it with you guys.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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mastersmith

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

I'm curious Oldfast, how did this business end up with 2 locked safes? Perhaps moved into the building and inherited them? Lock trolls left them in the night? Please tell us..........
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:41 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

mastersmith wrote:I'm curious Oldfast, how did this business end up with 2 locked safes? Perhaps moved into the building and inherited them?
Lock trolls left them in the night? Please tell us..........

My bet is on the 'lock trolls'. Almost makes more sense doesn't it?! lol

But yeah, it does seem rather odd, right? It seems such critical info would be passed from the
previous owners to the new owners during the purchase. Someone really dropped the ball here.

Instead of acquiring an asset, he has just the opposite - something that's going to COST him $.
Whether he wants it out or wants it working, it ends up as a negative in his books. Not to mention
this huge useless box is currently taking up precious space that could be used more productively.

Now, during my time there I did hear mention of a slip of paper with the combo to the electronic lock.
So maybe this info WAS passed on. Plowing thru hoards of paper they apparently never found it tho.

On another interesting (or maybe entertaining) note: Most of my time there was spent with a manager.
Nice girl. Eventually the owner showed up after I had finished and we talked a bit. It become obvious
to me that this safe had more or less become a thorn in his side. He really wanted nothing to do with
it. He simply wanted it outta there after retrieving its' contents. He then told me he plans to torch the
hinges off. When I explained why this wouldn't work, he didn't skip a beat in coming up with his new
plan - his torching adventures were immediately moved to the top or maybe the side of the safe. lol

Look, I'm not makin' fun of the guy. And I certainly didn't think any less of the man. It makes sense
even to a safe-lover such as myself. He looks at it and sees a negative value. It's costing him time,
money, and space. Fair enough. I'm just sayin' I can't help but chuckle a little inside. I mean really,
whadda ya suppose to say to that?! I probably had what looked to be a sorta half-ass, shit-eatin'
grin on my face when I put my hand up, shrugged my shoulders and said, "Well?, I guess try not
to inadvertently obliterate whatever the hell it is your after in the process
." lol. And that was that.

That poor ol' safe likely has a gruesome fate ahead. Ah well, I had my fun with it and I let
them know I'd be interested in purchasing the LaGard if they ever wanted to gimme a call.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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innerpicked

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:49 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

I think that the Sargent Greenleaf electronic lock is vulnerable to power line analysis. Look up "Plore- Side channel Attacks"
(21:42:51) PhoneMan: restraints? the GF and I do those
(21:42:59) PhoneMan: wait, um...
ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:37 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

innerpicked wrote:I think that the Sargent Greenleaf electronic lock is vulnerable to power line analysis. Look up "Plore- Side channel Attacks"

Thanks! That brought me to several interesting reads. But I'll have to just be content with that for now.
In the end I'd need to be really tech-savvy or have $2,000+ I'm willing to spend to utilize this. Someday :)
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
<<

Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:08 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Floor Safe
(unknown make)


- Could use some help identifying this safe and/or the lock.
- I'm also having trouble with disassembling it for servicing.
There's some clues here if you have the time to take a look.

16" tall and approximately 8" in diameter. The square base is 9".

ImageImageImage

Having battled a few floor safes recently, I'll be honest - I'm glad this one wasn't installed. lol


Image

All set to start spinnin'. Rather than using the deeply etched groove in the door, the small wire will aid in readings.
I look at this and see 8" of illuminated heaven, lol. The tiny world I'll be residing in for the next while. Mmmm-mm.

Image

Ya know, there's a member here (Piotr) whom I've not seen in a long time. He use to speak of flow (psychology).
It was the first I had ever heard of it, but it makes sense to me. It's a state of mind. An activity that involves such
mental focus we're said to be in a state of flow or 'in the zone'. So intensely immersed, the mind cannot wander.
There is simply no room for that long-standing resentment - yesterdays' regrets - worries of tomorrow. Nothing .
For a brief time we live only in the now. An escape of sorts. A relief. There is a therapeutic value to it for sure.
We all need flow-time. My father finds it in a book. My brother; video games. And us? We find it within a lock.

Was only my second day being semi-mobile again and my back was still a wreck. But I'm a faithful addict, lol
and was already planning for two openings & one servicing for the day. So I tried to take frequent breaks.
On one of my breaks I wondered to the back of this property and found myself looking over this field.

Image

Of all the worlds' picturesque scenes, I suppose this one is rather mundane by comparison. However....
it was more the feeling that it brought about. Never in my life has the earth felt so still. The day so quite.

Now I'm not a pessimist, but here I was doing what I love... and it occurred to me that it may not always
be this way. Years from now I will be old, maybe unable. I could fall ill by this time next year. Hell, I may
be in an accident as early as tomorrow. Ya just never know what life has in store. I already look back at
times/moments in my life that I wish I had cherished more. But this day, this moment.. will not be one of
those. I do believe I milked this one for all it's worth lol. Ok I know! Enough of my sentimental sappiness

Time to get spinnin' again. And the vast treasure?
A liquid sludge consisting of water and rust chips.

Image

Image

Image

Taking out three screws will allow the entire center portion to be removed, but the rusty nut must be taken off first.
The nut is actually on the end of the spindle and turns with the dial, just as a drive cam would. I have never seen
anything like it. Makes me very curious about the positioning of the actual drive cam and how this thing works.

Looking at the nut - the hole I'd imagine is the key way on the spindle. The divot across from that hole is where
the nut & spindle have been peened to solidly join the two. That's the root of my troubles more so than the rust.

Image

Again, any suggestions on getting this apart would be appreciated. As to the make/model of the safe or the lock,
perhaps the tags below and the shape of the change key hole above will help. Diebold or an S&G you think?

Image

Image

Contact Area: 94-6...The RCP (6) gave the most fluctuation.
Movable flys. Couldn't determine exact pickups, but they were small.
Dialing: LRL R to Stop @70. Approximately a 1/4 turn (98-70) retracts the bolts.
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" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:49 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Thanks.

Oldfast wrote:- I'm also having trouble with disassembling it for servicing.

So the owner wants to use it as a safe again?

Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Location: Michigan

Post Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:37 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

MartinHewitt wrote:Thanks.

Oldfast wrote:- I'm also having trouble with disassembling it for servicing.

So the owner wants to use it as a safe again?

Nah, she has no interest in using it. She'll likely sell it during her garage sale this summer.
Said she'd be more than happy with $25. I'm rather tempted to give maybe $35 or so for it.

Honestly, I don't know what it's really worth, probably not a lot in its' current condition. She
might do better by holding out till this summer. My offer is what it's worth to me personally.
With rust on the inside though, it would obviously need a make-over before being installed.

Mainly though I'm curious to see the lock! Regardless of whether I buy it or she sells it to someone
else this summer... it'd be nice to know it's in sound working order. So if I can get at it I'll service it.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MHM

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Post Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:43 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

It's an odd one isn't it? Is there any chance that the peened-on nut stays in place but the *dial* is removed instead, and then the whole lock assy slips out the back once the three Phillips head screws are removed? Doesn't make a lot of sense but there again the whole lock is a weird beast; almost looks amateurish and home-made...maybe a kind of a small cottage manufacturer making product exclusively for Sears.

I love the whole tone of this episode...I'm gonna call it "Zen and the Art of Wheelpack Maintenance."
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mdc5150

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Post Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:28 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Mike it is great to see you doing so well. I am truly envious of your skills.
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Fritz the Cat

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Post Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:35 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

I like the tree . What kind of tree is it ? Looks like a pin acorn oak tree I've seen before.

I hope your back gets healed soom . Perhaps a little Tai Chi with your Zen would help.

I really enjoy your reading about your adventures . You must have a large network of individuals to come across so many safes to open . :safedial:

I was wodering about what kind of tools do you bring with on an opening . You mentioned magnets to move the inner parts of a safe before . That was pretty interesting .

Take care of yourself and keep on going :smile:
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