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Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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xeo

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Post Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:44 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Sticky.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:11 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Great! So I find his new postings even quicker.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:53 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

xeo wrote:Sticky.

ADHESIVE! :spinning: ADHESIVE!

And I'm not gonna lie... feels damn good.
Worked long & hard for this piece of tape :D

Thanks for the recognition Admins/Mods!

Xeooo0OO :-o OO0oooooooo!

madsamurai wrote:I think the thing I like most about safes is there are so many 'interesting tidbits.' Who would think there could be so much fascinating history in a bunch of metal boxes... it really adds a sense of character to these old things.

So true. And when it comes to the history of safes, companies, and so on... it's really a tangled web. I only wish I could retain even half of the 'tidbits' I come across, lol. But my memory just doesn't work that way. So I've resigned myself to simply enjoying something AS I read it, knowing I'll probably never remember it again. lol

MartinHewitt wrote:What a great posting to wake up with! Thanks!

Thanks for always tuning in Martin :)

L4R3L2 wrote:Wonderful! Thanks for sharing. I'm confused, though, how gates are found when no contact points are felt. Could you please elaborate?

Great question Terry(!)... and one that helps generate good discussion. Long story, short: The security of most lock designs rely upon not allowing the fence to touch the wheel pack. As we know, the only time the fence should touch down is the drop-in area; the fence falls to 'test' the wheel pack for the correct combo. If all gates are aligned, it drops in. But excessive wear within a lock can result in the fence riding on the outer edge of wheel(s). When this occurs, we might literally hear and/or feel a gate as it passes under the fence.

The wheel pack & fence of this lock was kinda hard to see from my dark/shadowy photos. So lets take a look at a different lock, but with better lighting. This Yale L2, from a previous post. Full writeup here if interested... but mainly I'm just after this clear photo so you can have a good look at the fence-type. Notice how it spans over the entire wheel pack and drive cam?

Oldfast wrote:Image

Second; Normally, the nose and fence are two separate entities on the end of a lever arm.
You have a lever nose riding solely on the drive cam while the fence hovers over the wheels.

But this design is unique as the lever nose IS the fence. It spans the entire width of the wheel pack.
As a result, there's always the possibility that this type of lock may leak some 'bonus' material to help
get you started. Be sure to do some spinnin' with a keen touch & ear before going all out on graphing.

(below) Back to the OB-type lock we're talking about. Its' fence is similar to the L2 above in the fact that it's just one long piece spanning over the entire wheel pack. Now, when this lock was brand new, the diameter of the cam was greater than that of the wheels. The result: fence rides solely on the cam and the remainder of the fence is kept up off the wheels.

But you have a cast iron fence constantly riding a brass cam. Over many years the two eat away at each other (the brass more so than the iron). The fence gets a small wear spot, and the cam gets smaller and smaller in diameter. When enough wear occurs, the fence begins riding on wheel(s)... and this is when information is leaked to us through the dial. We might literally hear/feel a gate as it passes under the fence. The clues come from the fence as it encounters either the leading edge and/or trailing edge of a gate. This can produce a variety of sounds, none of which you'll hear... unless you're listening.

Oldfast wrote:Image


More on this spin: I mentioned the wheels read in the "glories order of 1, 2, 3". This is nice in any situation, but particularly here. Had the gate I heard first belonged to w3, I would have been forced to continue with conventional manipulation (reading CP's - which hopefully would now be detectable with w3's gate aligned). However, it belonged to w1, allowing me to continue my listening excursions. I can park w1 at its' gate, then bring w3 around for a listen... followed by wheels 3&2 around for a listen. Once finding w2, I can again do the same thing: park wheels 1&2 @ known gates, and bring w3 around for a listen/feel.

....................................................................

For a long time I (just like a lot of people) was immediately intimidated when I'd approached a lock that seemingly had nothing to work from. It should be said that there's a number of reasons for a lock to exhibit absolutely no CP's, (and not all of them are good for us spinners!). But sometimes it can turn out to be a real cake-walk. Don't be too quick to give up or let doubt creep in.

Also, don't limit yourself by thinking this scenario occurs only with this particular fence-type.... or even to just old locks. I've experienced this with friction-fences and even the more modern spring-loaded lever designs. Be attentive. If conditions are right, bonus material might be there for the taking.

Finally, (still along the same lines of this discussion) don't forget that every lock offers us the same scenario, just a much smaller window of it... the drop-in! Through this area the fence in entirely on the wheel pack! Yes, it's a small area. And no, w3 isn't (or shouldn't) be there. But if wheel 1 or 2 happens to be set within it, we MIGHT catch it. You're picking up wheels progressively and bringing them through this area anyway while doing a wheel count and pickup differences - why not be attentive. The drop-in for many locks includes some or all of 1-12, which just so happens to represent the months of the year for those folks setting their birthday for an easy-to-remember combo.
Last edited by Oldfast on Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MHM

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Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:30 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Brilliant couple of posts Oldfast, I love the commentary and I love the photos. Thanks for all your effort here.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:11 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

MHM wrote:Brilliant couple of posts Oldfast, I love the commentary and I love the photos. Thanks for all your effort here.

Michael, Your encouraging words & longterm interest in this thread mean a lot! Really appreciate it, for sure.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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AL usher69

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Post Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:08 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Old fast, I really enjoy your posts. Like I've said you are inspirational and the amount of knowledge your willing to share and help others. Your someone I look up too and have respect for . I read your posts most mornings with a cup of coffee, thank you and I look for your adventures in the future...
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4335

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:04 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Hey Al, thanks again. Means a lot.

Was looking through all your past posts... you've come a long way my friend! And you've worked hard for it. To know I've played a small part along the way is certainly special for me. Also, I can kinda relate to you in regards to learning; I sometimes feel like I need to work 2,3,4 times longer at something to reach the same place that others arrived at with a little more ease, lol. Not a pity-party. More so just a realistic view of our strengths and weaknesses, then working through them. For me, it's just insane repetition.

Funny as it may sound, spinnin' has actually added a lot of depth to my life. Of course it's only one aspect of my life... but I'd say it's one of the major players. I've found all sorts of unexpected benefits from it, some of which extend into other facets of my life. I won't start droning on about all of it, lol (which I could easily do)... point is, it's a worthwhile cause putting some of this stuff out there in hopes that some others my find some of the same joy it's brought to me.

Keep up the great work and thank you for the kind words!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:00 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Shaw-Walker


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52" tall . . 25" wide . . 27" deep



. . . . . . .Image


Yale OC-5 . . 3 wheel . . mesh-change . . friction-fence


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Oddly, the opening index on this one was over at 3:00
For an easier spin I placed my own index @ 12 o'clock

Image

I suppose I could elaborate a bit and tryn' make this into a story, lol
But really there's not much to tell. Was a slow start and I had to do
some work before I began making good progress. All in all, a pretty
straight forward spin session. Not the fastest, but not too shabby.

Image

Image

Image

Image

The 3 o'clock index was even more curious after the opening.
You can see the lock mounted RH, just as nearly all OC-5s are.
And the dial came to its' final stop at left 10 (just as it should).

At any rate, this was an 'open only'. No servicing. So,
I tightened the spline key and the mounting screws,
wrote out their combination... and that was that.

Again, not much to say or info to give. Just some
pics of another safe in case you ever run into one.


. . . . .. .. .. .. ... ... .......... ... ... .. .. .. .. . . . .



The above safe was actually from Winter Safecracking Season 2017-18.
Below is another Shaw-Walker I ran into this winter - nearly identical.

This one was tannish-brown though. The opening index, by the way,
was at 12 o'clock on this one. And it sported a bronze-cased OC-5.
A thorough cleaning and this thing was actually in fantastic shape.

I assume this one's still 1930-50, but was curious if anyone knew if
a bronze case might signify older or younger to any other OC-5 ??


Image


Image



*More on the manipulation of friction-fence locks HERE

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" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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