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Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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00247

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Post Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:43 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Good stuff as always, Oldfast. This safe oozes modern ingenuity (not a positive comment) and it probably accomplished what it was intended to do at a certain price point, but it sure lacks the character and workmanship of the old safes. A perfect example of mundane utilitarian design.
It is time... stand up for a constitutional America. Without it, we have shed blood in vain.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Riyame wrote:Awesome updates Oldfast. Glad to see you are still enjoying working with safes.

Indeed I am! Thanks so much Eric.

00247 wrote:Good stuff as always, Oldfast. This safe oozes modern ingenuity (not a positive comment) and it probably accomplished what it was intended to do at a certain price point, but it sure lacks the character and workmanship of the old safes. A perfect example of mundane utilitarian design.

Haha, I hear ya! Serves its' purpose, but certainly nothin' to marvel at.
Like some chunks of metal that just barely took their necessary form.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MHM

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Post Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:03 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Love the latest update Oldfast, I really like the ones where you tell a story.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Thanks Michael! Nice to see ya :)

I've had some pictures ready to go for a while now...
but haven't found much time to put some words to 'em.

More to come.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Fritz the Cat

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Post Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:09 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

I'm glad to see you are still going strong . The pictures are the right size and Hi resolution quality . Perfect.

I've been looking at my mounted S & G 6741 getting ready to warm up my skills . I'll post a thread on recovering my techniques .

Looking forward to your next adventure . I'll be in northen Michigan (LP) this week on vacation . I'll be visiting flea markets looking for locks . Any favorites you have found on your travels you could suggest would be appreciated .
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:38 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Fritz! Very nice to see/hear from you and great to hear you're gonna continue spinnin' :)

As to good places for lock-hunting... sorry I'm of no help, but I never seem to have much time for that sort of thing (though I'd like to).

Thanks for confirming good picture sizes. I'm always curious, cuz I'm never sure. Enjoy your vacation!!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:55 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Detroit Safe


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4 ft tall .... 26" deep .... 31" wide .... 7" thick door

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The very unique, unmistakable corners of a Detroit Safe

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And an old familiar friend, usually signifying a S&G 6810 Roller Bolt
(which it basically is, but we'll take a closer look after it's opened).

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It felt like I spent a lot of time getting the dial to run smooth on this one...
but the payoff was more than worthwhile, no doubt crucial for an opening.

A portion of the spin was spent in my headphones, but ditched the amp in
favor of 'feel' as I began to find my stride with this lock. There was some
nearby demolition going on; they were actually ripping off a metal roof
and removing steel pillars at the other end of the building I was in. lol
Really, it wasn't too bad. Better than having someone talking to me.

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Contact points on these are generally found within the blank area;
The RCP is at about 20, give or take an inc in either direction.
LCP will be felt somewhere in the middle of the blank area.

There's different ways in which people will deal with this blank area.
I tend to use some scotch tape and a sharpie. You can see the marks
here... LCP about midway - RCP at 19. Also, I like to make my lines
thick (usually a bit thicker than what you see here) as it seems to
help me differentiate the subtle fluctuations. But that's just me.

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Sargent & Greenleaf produced this lock exclusively for the Detroit Safe Co.
It's commonly referred to simply as a "Detroit lock", but it seems to me it's
basically a 6810 roller bolt. If not, it's certainly within S&G's 6800 series.

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Group 2 ... 3 wheel ... key change ... gravity driven lever

CONTACT AREA: LCP blank area, midway. RCP @ about 20
BINDING ORDER: 1, 3, 2 (with this one anyway)
DIALING: LRL Right to stop (@ approx. 100)
HANDLE: Turns clockwise to open



To date, I've only dealt with a handful of these locks,
but I'm getting a better feel for them with each one.
For what it's worth....

They can sometimes give off very shallow and long stretches that can be difficult
to make sense of or sort out at first. Some have a workload in store for you, as it
becomes a bit of a 'parking war' (but funner than the kind you find in the city).

Try not to get hung up or too committed on any one thing straight away. Instead,
finish out each advance cycle fully; you may very well come away with multiple
areas of interest that can be explored further, or utilized later.

Fluctuations can be quite subtle initially - on the order of only 1 or 2 tenths.
Now that's not to say this is all the lock is going to offer you. Later into the
manipulation, once wheels are more strategically positioned, fluctuations
can become more pronounced and gates might even jump out at you.
Lowering your expectations at first may be a good thing though.


If you care to correlate some of my other experiences/thoughts
with Detroit Safes and S&G 6810's from earlier in this thread:

a) You might recall my first encounter with a Detroit Safe.
This one sported a 50# dial w/ an S&G 6840 though, HERE
b) Two safes with 6810's, both can be found on p.8, HERE
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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tarboxb

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Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:55 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Good stuff as always Oldfast! You need to start taking door bolt position measurements, etc. for us which may be pulling out the power tools now and then. :P
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mdc5150

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Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:43 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Mike I love reading your posts. I so envy your talent, but I know it isn't talent alone it is countless hours of practice and experience.

Keep at it my friend.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:14 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Thanks, Oldfast for starting to update us on your safe openings of the past years. :)

How long did it take you to get it open? I assume it did not have these shallow cuts as shown in your second link to the past? What did you do to getting the dial turn smoothly? Just turning, turning, turning or with some oil?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:09 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Thanks so much guys. I gotta say... it really is nice to have a few of you to share this stuff with and "talk shop". There's not many people I know around me that care all too much. And of the ones that do, they just wanna hear 'cool stories', which for me gets old quick. Not to mention, I really don't have any 'cool stories'! lol. So again, I appreciate the interest and I hope some of my experiences will prove useful to your work in the field. If nothing else, I'm sure some of my photos are just fun to browse.

tarboxb wrote:Good stuff as always Oldfast! You need to start taking door bolt position measurements, etc. for us which may be pulling out the power tools now and then. :P

TarbooOOOoox! Yeah, I'd be willing to do that. I could probably get specs on most safes I come across (depending on time, how tired and/or cold I am, etc.) You'd definitely have to school me as to the proper way of taking such measurements so they'd prove useful to you in the end. Naturally, I wouldn't include such info here, but keep it on record should someone inquire. PM me sometime to discuss it further. We'll see what this next season brings. And keep in mind, the next handful of safes I post here are still from last Winter.


mdc5150 wrote:Mike I love reading your posts. I so envy your talent, but I know it isn't talent alone it is countless hours of practice and experience.

Matt, thanks so much man. And you're so right... much of it comes down to being devoted and disciplined; putting in the hours. Certainly there's some folks that are naturally gifted (talented). Unfortunately, I'm not one of them, lol. Everything and anything to do with manipulation came very slowly and awkward for me. Very foreign. Only through absolutely insane repetition did it become more fluent and make more sense. In fact, I still go through these same phases today whenever I tryn' introduce something new into my spin game. I hope this serves as inspiration to others, as they realize you don't have to be a freak-of-nature to do this. Very nice to see you!


MartinHewitt wrote:How long did it take you to get it open? I assume it did not have these shallow cuts as shown in your second link to the past? What did you do to getting the dial turn smoothly? Just turning, turning, turning or with some oil?

I always seem to lose track of time, lol. But I'd say it was pushing 3 hours. Include several breaks for my lower back, along with prep/setup time for the dial... yeah, I would say a good solid 3 hrs would be fairly accurate here. Oh, and one peanut butter & honey sandwich :)

Yes, the shallow cuts spanning the circumference of the wheels were present, just as I've seen on the 6810's. Honestly, I'm becoming very curious about these. And from what I've seen, no one has a definitive answer. Logically, your first thought is 'manipulation resistance'. Is this design to frustrate manipulation, and if so, is it effective? Mmmm, I suppoooose to some extent, yes. But overall(?) no, not really. Remember, during my first encounter with these I was not even aware of them until servicing the lock after the opening. So it begs the question; if not for resistance, then what?! Are these notches simply a by-product of the manufacturing process? Could they be nothing more than aesthetics? Which seems far fetched... but look at the lengths they've gone to with the rest of the parts; the engraving, scaling, the velvet colored background... these things mattered back then. At any rate, their purpose seems a mystery.

Getting a dial to run as smooth as possible: I'm learning more & more tricks to accomplish this. But yes, sometimes it comes down to nothing more than what you've said; lube & lots of turning. Here's the best way I've found to get straight to the heart of the matter - behind the dial and directly on the bushing.

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Take the straw that came with your lubricant and extend it with heat shrink tubing. The tubing can be pressed flat and worked in between the dial and dial ring. Not all dials will allow it, but a great many will. Pull out on the dial and turn slowly while watching near the opening index. Wait for the most amount of clearance between dial & ring to be offered - work the tubing in and straight down to the bushing - spray away - then spin away to work it in.

For turning, I'll sometimes attach a sort of bar clamp. But in the near future, I'd like to come up with an attachment that could be chucked up in a drill. One the would firmly but gently grasp the dial. Delicate turning could still be done in this way... but much more turning could be achieved in far less time, while also preserving your wrist for the main event.

What lubricant? Currently, I'm sold on Tri-Flow. It performs well in the wicker test. So its' climbing and penetrating capabilities make sense to me for now. However, I'm always on the lookout! If you know of something that may work better yet... I'd love to give it a try!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jeffmoss26

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Post Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:07 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Great work, Oldfast! Long time no see :)
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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Riyame

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Post Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:02 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Awesome stuff Mike. Interesting use of the shrink tube.
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Location: Michigan

Post Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:34 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

jeffmoss26 wrote:Great work, Oldfast! Long time no see :)

It's nice to see you too!! Geez, I really start missin' you guys in the summer.
As always, I tryn' keep an eye on what everyone's up to. Just can't post much.

Riyame wrote:Awesome stuff Mike. Interesting use of the shrink tube.

Thanks for taking a look Eric. Good to cya.
Yeah, it works pretty well (most of the time).
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:02 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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MOSLER
(Old style)
Lug Door



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3 ft tall .... 16" deep .... 20" wide .... 4" thick door




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Structurally, this is one of the more serious safes
I've encountered during my short time of doing this.

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The lock (Mosler's B107), we'll take a closer look at in a moment.
But the proper dialing sequence is a RLR Left to stop @ approx. 4


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The handle is then turned counter-clockwise nearly 180 degrees...
which in turn, rotates the lug door about 40 degrees clockwise...


...and we're ready to pull this chunk of steel :spinning:



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Mosler KCB 107

Group 2 ... 3 wheel ... key change ... spring loaded 'flipper-fence'

CONTACT AREA: roughly 92 - 0
DIALING: RLR Left to stop @ about 4
HANDLE: Turns counter-clockwise to open



I've mentioned before; Most of my work lands me in frigid to freezing
temperatures. But without a doubt, this was THE coldest place to date.
This old and out-of-service brick building acted just like a freezer. Nasty!
Two heaters and heated insoles in my boots didn't even take the edge off.

Actually, this is the one that flared my back up somethin' fierce (again).
I paid for it for the rest of the winter and through this summer till now.
Knowing all that.... would I do it again.... ? ..... whadda you think? lol



:safedial: Happy Spinnin' Folks :safedial:


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" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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