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Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:25 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

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Nothing spectacular, but another fun opening from this past winter.

From what I've read, LSDA does not produce safes. Instead, their
label ends up on safes from a variety of different manufacturers.

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This is a straight-tailpiece lock. Both key & combo are required.
Three wheels + a drive wheel... for a 4 number combination.
The lock/key, in this case, obviously controls the fence.

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Note the extreme angle of the fence. You can imagine the binding
order was quite prevalent - starting with the drive wheel, then w3,
w2, and finally w1. Due to the fence being so tilted, wheel 1 didn't
matter though. After locating 3 of the 4 gates, the fence penetrated
the wheel pack enough to retract the the bolt and pull the door open.
Image
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:09 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Thanks! Was the angled fence produced that way or does it look like it was bend afterwards?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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mdc5150

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Post Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:50 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Great work Mike. I love the ingenuity of your laser/key setup. Simple yet brilliant.

I recently drilled a lock very much like this one because the drive pin on the drive wheel fell off. Every time I drill a safe I think our our discussions about drilling over manipulation and think to myself "well this time it had to be drilled there is no way around it."
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:59 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Hey, thanks guys.

Martin - I tend to think this bend maybe occurred over time. However, there's a real possibility it could have come straight outta the factory like this. There's a lot of low-end, overseas, imported safes out there (dunno if this one falls into that category)... but we all know they're usually concerned more with sales than security. So it wouldn't surprise me.

Matt - As you know, if I were to run into that situation, I'd have no choice but to walk away. I still LOVE the fact that you've taken the time and effort to become proficient in BOTH disciplines. You just don't see that as much nowadays. Surely you've found manipulation to be a huge help, even within some of your drilling excursions? They compliment each beautifully, no?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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castagnojohn

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Post Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:45 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

It's great to see someone really enjoying what they do , thank you for posting this. Did you impression the key too? Keep up the good work.
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mdc5150

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Post Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:05 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Oldfast wrote:Hey, thanks guys.

Martin - I tend to think this bend maybe occurred over time. However, there's a real possibility it could have come straight outta the factory like this. There's a lot of low-end, overseas, imported safes out there (dunno if this one falls into that category)... but we all know they're usually concerned more with sales than security. So it wouldn't surprise me.

Matt - As you know, if I were to run into that situation, I'd have no choice but to walk away. I still LOVE the fact that you've taken the time and effort to become proficient in BOTH disciplines. You just don't see that as much nowadays. Surely you've found manipulation to be a huge help, even within some of your drilling excursions? They compliment each beautifully, no?


Absolutely, diagnostics is much easier when you have put in the time to learn manipulation. I just wish I had more opportunity for manipulation in the field.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

I am in contact with a German cracksman. He does do mostly manipulation, decoding and picking and resorts to drilling only when the damage-free methods are not possible at all or to much effort. A 3330 is on his manipulation list, a 3390 probably not.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Altashot

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Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

I haven't been here much lately, so, coming into this kinda late but,
good work Oldfast! you're becoming quite the safeman!

M.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:32 am

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

castagnojohn wrote:It's great to see someone really enjoying what they do , thank you for posting this. Did you impression the key too? Keep up the good work.

Hey, thanks John. No, the key was present... combo unknown.

MartinHewitt wrote:I am in contact with a German cracksman. He does do mostly manipulation, decoding and picking and resorts to drilling only when the damage-free methods are not possible at all or to much effort. A 3330 is on his manipulation list, a 3390 probably not.

Nice. Always good to know someone like that to talk with.
Now is he also the one that sometimes refers jobs to you?

Altashot wrote:I haven't been here much lately, so, coming into this kinda late but,
good work Oldfast! you're becoming quite the safeman!

Altashot!! Certainly have missed ya around here my friend.

Thanks so much. And ya know, it's taken some years...
but I'm finally starting to feel like a safeman. :)

Still soooo much to learn though. Sometimes I want to know it all right now, lol. But most of the time, realizing I have a lifetime of learning ahead gets me excited. In fact, even after 7 or 8 yrs now, I still love it just as much. I can be anywhere doing anything, and the mere thought of manipulation literally provokes a physical reaction in me - a quick 'rise' in my stomach (like when you hit the top of a roller coaster). The end of this season was actually kinda difficult for me! I was feeling sentimental as I cleaned & packed up my tools, stools, heaters, etc. for storage. Then I became rather depressed for a while. lol

This winter was just so thrilling for me. Naturally the usual suspects - each season is speckled with a variety of Sentry safes, S&Gs, OC-5's.... but some of the more exciting experiences/accomplishments included: a floor safe sporting STAR's manipulation resistant push-in dial, a Mosler 5-H, and several S&G 6810's. I finished the winter at 34-0. Am I bragging? Mmmaybe a little, lol. Figure I best take it while I can(!) since it's unlikely I'll ever see a perfect winter again! There's always at least a few that force feed ya some humble-pie.

Anyway, I love sharing what I can of it here with you guys
(as not many people can relate). I'll continue posting more
of this past winter as I find time throughout the summer.

Thanks for having a look guys.

PS I'm curious. Are the pics too large on this latest post?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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mdc5150

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Post Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

I can't wait for more Mike. The pics are perfect.

By the way what is the clamp setup made of for your laser and key?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:46 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Oldfast wrote:
MartinHewitt wrote:I am in contact with a German cracksman. He does do mostly manipulation, decoding and picking and resorts to drilling only when the damage-free methods are not possible at all or to much effort. A 3330 is on his manipulation list, a 3390 probably not.

Nice. Always good to know someone like that to talk with.
Now is he also the one that sometimes refers jobs to you?

It has not happened yet, but yes there is this option. The was so far one chance, but the potential customer seems to have solved the problem already.

Oldfast wrote:several S&G 6810's

Are they easy to manipulate?

Oldfast wrote:34-0

:crazy: You have manipulated the STAR's too?

Oldfast wrote:I'll continue posting more of this past winter as I find time throughout the summer.

I am really looking forward!

Oldfast wrote:PS I'm curious. Are the pics too large on this latest post?

For me they are not to large. I love to see details.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4130

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:02 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Sorry for such a delayed response here guys.

mdc5150 wrote:.....By the way what is the clamp setup made of for your laser and key?

Matt: Most all of it's comprised of electric related parts. My first attempt HERE. The clamp itself is for grounding rods. The U-shape cradle to hold the laser came out of a disconnect box. Both parts require some filing to get them streamlined. Additionally, the ground rod clamp is really not meant to handle much torque (first one I tried cracked) so I reinforced it with a good amount of jb-weld on the underside of each half. I've also upgraded my laser HERE, from Calpac. I like this one the best so far... though I still have some issues with it dimming sporadically. This may be due to the extreme cold I'm usually in (but I'm not really sure yet).

This clamp is pretty versatile and I'm pretty happy with it for now. But Matt, if you plan to devote much time to something like this: Honestly, I think your time might be better spent actually designing the ideal clamp that would accommodate all handles and keys, then have it fabricated.

I like my laser/mirror(s) setup. I mean, nothing amplifies reading like 20-40 ft.(!) of beam travel, lol. However, I've plans to become familiar with a magnetically based indicator as well. I think this also has its' advantages, and it's just nice to have options. And remember, we now have a third option for straight-tailpiece locks HERE - no setup time involved at all.

MartinHewitt wrote:
Oldfast wrote:several S&G 6810's

Are they easy to manipulate?

Martin: Generally, they're considered to be difficult and more time consuming, for a multitude of reasons. There's no torque on the wheel pack, the lever/rollerbolt assembly is rather loose, and naturally there's no detent ball. All this creates for an overall sloppy, inconsistent lock. Additionally, the contact points are usually quite faint/weak, sometimes non-existent at first. And the heavy, sometimes noisy dial doesn't help matters either. I used my amp on 2 of the 3 I worked on this winter.

MartinHewitt wrote: :crazy: You have manipulated the STAR's too?

Only one so far, but yes. With a decent quality dial indicator they're doable. The write-up in regards to these locks in "The National Locksmith's Guide to Manipulation" is fairly accurate.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MartinHewitt

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Location: Germany

Post Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:15 pm

Re: Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

Oldfast wrote:
MartinHewitt wrote:Are they (6810) easy to manipulate?

Martin: Generally, they're considered to be difficult and more time consuming, for a multitude of reasons. There's no torque on the wheel pack, the lever/rollerbolt assembly is rather loose, and naturally there's no detent ball. All this creates for an overall sloppy, inconsistent lock. Additionally, the contact points are usually quite faint/weak, sometimes non-existent at first. And the heavy, sometimes noisy dial doesn't help matters either.

Then my clone is probably not a good clone. I expect it to be manipulated rather easily, because of the slight tapering of the fence. Have to wait for a dial to actually try it.

Oldfast wrote:Only one (STAR's) so far, but yes. With a decent quality dial indicator they're doable. The write-up in regards to these locks in "The National Locksmith's Guide to Manipulation" is fairly accurate.

Great! Didn't remember that lock there. Never thought this could be helpful for me.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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