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How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination lock?

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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:34 pm

How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination lock?

So I got my first combination lock from ebay for 40 Euro. It says Group 2 R6700 Series. The lever is golden, but it doesn't look like brass, more like colored aluminum. The wheels are brass. The case is Zamac with hammer finish paint. Could it be an older model R6730? The condition is not nice. The whole backside of the dial was filled with grease. Yuck! Some parts of the lock itself have also been greased. So I am cleaning it. What I am not sure is the order of assembly. It was delivered with (from dial side to back) white plastic disc, two spacing washers, then the wheels with flys and spacing washers in between and finally the wheel pack retainer. Are the two spacing washers on the plastic disc side correct? The first dial is rotating a stiffly compared to the others. PS: I believe the stiffness is because it is not mounted properly on some kind of board.

I do not have a combination change key. From the look of the lock I would have expected it to be just a square rod with a rounded tip and a rounded part where the case cover opening is, but the key has a nose and looks differently. Is the nose to limit possible rotation? What I should I make it like?

Thanks
Martin Hewitt
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Altashot

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Post Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:47 am

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

Look here. Complete instructions and pictures of the change key. Page 23 has a good exploded view.
http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/ ... _locks.pdf
From your description, yours does not have the torque adjuster.
In this case, you put the white disc first, then the 1st wheel (it's the only one that has a flat side), then a fly, followed by a spacer/isolation washer then the 2nd wheel, the 2nd fly, isolation washer,
3re wheel, fly and spirolox.

In your lock, you normally only need 2 isolation washers. The shipper may have included more than needed.
If the lock feels too loose, you can bend the white disc to give more tension on the wheel pack, but as you said, if feels too stiff
as it is, so I would remove the extra isolation washers and try it like that.

If you're still having troubles, we're here to help.

Have fun!

M.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:38 am

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

First lock.... exciting!!

You're doing it good by cleaning it up. Most of the locks
I've ever purchased used were overdue for a cleaning.
Many were excessively greased. A common mistake.

In case you haven't found it, S&G has a "Mechanical Safe Lock Guide" in pdf
2nd to last page has recommended lubrication points. The very last page
contains an exploded parts view that may help you with the assembly
As far as mounting it, THIS video was quite helpful with my first lock.

MartinHewitt wrote:.....I do not have a combination change key. From the look of the lock I would have expected it to be just a square rod with a rounded tip and a rounded part where the case cover opening is, but the key has a nose and looks differently. Is the nose to limit possible rotation? What I should I make it like?.....

It's never recommended to use anything other than the proper key for the lock.
HOWEVER, if you're not using this lock on a safe, but simply mounting it on a
board for practice... then there's certainly no harm in using something homemade.

The rounded tip you're wondering about; after passing through all the wheels, the
tip nests in a small hole in the bottom of the lock case. This helps maintain perfect
alignment of the key during the changing process. The rotational limits for the key
are created at the key hole in the lock cover. Take a look on the underside of the
cover and you'll see the couple raised areas around the key hole for this purpose.

But again, if you're just after a practice lock with no need for absolute exactness,
you might be ok foregoing some of the elements that a factory key normally has.
At its' core (minus all the precision) your goal is to simply disengage the inner hub
from the outer ring on all 3 wheels... dial in a new combination... then re-engage
so the inner and outer portions mate and become one unit again.

The pdf I referred you to also has combination change instructions.
Reading through that should also help you in making your key.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
http://www.youtube.com/Oldfast911
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

I have already consulted the Mechanical Safe Lock Guide. That is when I realized, that my lock is different as it has indeed nothing of a torque adjuster. Maybe the guy which greased it put the two spacers into it instead of bending the plastic ring. I think I will first mount the lock to a wood board. Holding it in a hand is not really good to determine if it is working well or not. Then I will lubricate it as recommended and decide on the two extra spacers. The instruction video on mounting the lock is really helpful.

I certainly would not use a group 2 lock on any safe. I can get here new group 2M locks including dial for about 70 Euro. So in case my tool would not have a nose, how far would I have to turn the change key?
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Squelchtone

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Post Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:44 pm

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

GWiens2001 did a very pic heavy tutorial for tearing a 6730 down, take a look: viewtopic.php?t=11368

You may also find this Sargent & Greenleaf factory video useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjmLG8tNfWQ

Squelchtone
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:57 pm

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

Squelchtone wrote:GWiens2001 did a very pic heavy tutorial for tearing a 6730 down, take a look: http://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?t=11368

Thanks. That shows clearly the operation of the change key.

Btw. I do get a
You don't have permission to access /viewtopic.php on this server.

with this link due to missing https.
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Squelchtone

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Post Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:37 am

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

MartinHewitt wrote:
Squelchtone wrote:GWiens2001 did a very pic heavy tutorial for tearing a 6730 down, take a look: http://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?t=11368

Thanks. That shows clearly the operation of the change key.

Btw. I do get a
You don't have permission to access /viewtopic.php on this server.

with this link due to missing https.



can you see this link? [url]http://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?t=11368#p105103[/ur] or copy link to URL address bar?

or use Search box on top right of forum to look for What Is Inside an S&G 6730 Safe Lock and you'll find GWiens2001 pictorial.

good luck,
Squelchtone
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:59 am

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:35 pm

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

I cut the wood for my stand, but to assemble it I need to buy wood screws with flat heads.

Regarding the usage of lock types in the US and here ... I think the reason are the standards. Your UL secure safe standard requires (according to my understanding) combination locks. So people use combination locks and even electronic locks are made to look like mechanical combination locks. Here in Europe we have a more generic security lock standard, but this has an annex B with design guidelines for double-bitted lever locks and mechanical combination locks. For the lower two (of four) security levels the lock is assumed to be secure against manipulation if the lock fulfills these guidelines. I assume that lever locks were first added to this annex and that they can be produced cheaper and hence are more common here.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:16 pm

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

It seems the spindle is slightly bent. Let's see how bad it really is, when I have the screws to mount the lock.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:14 am

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

Still waiting for the screws, but ... In one of the many manipulation books, i.e. Safeman's Guide Volume 1, there is an exploded lock view of the R series locks. It is like my lock without torque adjuster. In this drawing there are between two wheels: spacer washer, fly, spacer washer. So it seems the two spacer washers which were at the white plastic washer should really be between the wheels.

Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

Between a wheel and its fly fits no spacer washer. So this is not a place to store the two superfluous spacer washers.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:33 pm

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

The spindle is bend a bit, but it is acceptable. When I screw the cam onto it the slot stops at RH, which it should be. To get it working I have to make a full turn back to get the slot again at RH. Is the torque adjustment piece there to prevent movement of the dial front and back? Is this a situation where I should put the superfluous spacer washers into it as it doesn't have a torque adjustment piece?

Martin Hewitt

PS: No, the superfluous spacer washers do not reduce the gap of the dial. They just increase the friction of the wheels. So I leave them out. I have to say I am astonished how smooth the wheels turn.
Last edited by MartinHewitt on Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:21 am

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

My change key works!
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femurat

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Post Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:30 am

Re: How to assemble my "new" S&G 6700 series combination loc

I'd put a shim between the lock and the stand. A piece of paper like a business card may work.

Cheers :)
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