1st Manipulation Ward 9007 safe on hold in learning curve

[Fabricator-X]

Deleted.

[Fritz the Cat]

Playing around (free spinning) with dail I do believe something is at 65 .

So I'm going to do graph 2 .
GRAPH # 2 1&2 AR 3 / @ 65
I'm following daggers pdf (availible on this site) on the page headed graph # 2.
I'm just doing the graph with wheel3 set on 65 .
Hopefully I'll come up with another number.So as it is

xx - xx - ~65~

OK , I did the graph by jotting down the LCP and RCP "numbers" . I can graph later for clarity and amplify prospective gates . Something is going on at 18 and its not w 3 . Will commit the numbers to paper and graph I'll send pictures . I also redid Graph #1 and amplified . Its late in the game but you can see how I came up with 65 . I'm going to check out how to do a HI low at this time . Perhaps I came up with the next number ?

I've skimmed over all the posts and I'll reread them and try out some of the novel ideas .Thanks guys !. Right now my main weakness is reading contact points with confidence. Its distraction to drop what you are doing to jot something down. A tape recorder perhaps ?
writing numbers and graphing later might be easiest for me.
I plan on getting a white pin and a 2x magnifier glass .mPerhaps on a magnetic
stand. Anyone ever try a paper vernier scale around the dial ?

[Fabricator-X]

Never mind.

[Fritz the Cat]

I did the graph and it looks simular to my last graph where I asumed 70 was the gate on w3.
I can't upload these pics fast enough to what I am capable of doiing .

But I can describe what I see .There is a gate I think at around 17 or 18 and I seea large peak at 60-65 , Is this w3 ?

Something is at 70-75 . I got to get a mag glass and white pin and redo the this graph in detail.I'lltry and upload this latest graph.

Is it possible with the wheelaction I'm using the peak of one wheel is covering a gate of another wheel like xx-17-63 or 17-xx-63 ? When all 3 wheels are read ? 17 and 63 are 50 incs apart on the other sife of the dial

[Oldfast]

Anyone ever try a paper vernier scale around the dial ?

I've never tried one myself, but I know some people really like the accuracy it gives.
You've been receiving some very nice drastic fluctuations though. So you may find
there's really no need to be splitting hairs in order to reach an opening with this one.
Give it a try though. You might like it a lot! I know I've seen print-outs for them.

Playing around (free spinning) with dail I do believe something is at 65 .

So I'm going to do graph 2 .
GRAPH # 2 1&2 AR 3 / @ 65
I'm following daggers pdf (availible on this site) on the page headed graph # 2.
I'm just doing the graph with wheel3 set on 65 .
Hopefully I'll come up with another number.So as it is

xx - xx - ~65~

I think you're definitely heading down the right road here.
Even if 65 does not put you perfectly into wheel 3's gate...
you know it's damn close and you can always 'tweek' that later.
For now, hopefully something shows up for you on wheels 1&2.

I did the graph and it looks simular to my last graph where I asumed 70 was the gate on w3.
I can't upload these pics fast enough to what I am capable of doiing .

But I can describe what I see .There is a gate I think at around 17 or 18 and I seea large peak at 60-65 , Is this w3 ?

No. It can't be. Well, it shouldn't be... if your rotations were done correctly.
Although you're moving w3, it's being positioned in the SAME place (@65)
every time before each reading is taken. Wheels 1&2 are the only wheels
your changing... so any fluctuations in this graph would belong to 1 and/or 2.
Make sense? We are talking about Graph#2: 1&2 AR / 3@65, correct?

Is it possible with the wheelaction I'm using the peak of one wheel is covering a gate of another wheel...

Sure it is. That's always a possibility. Especially when moving multiple wheels.

One thing's for sure - You're definitely making some progress!

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

Deleted.

Wow, that's quite a dick move to do on a forum.

[Fritz the Cat]

Perplexed ?

This might explain somthing from his intro posts...

Re: Introduction
I thought I would post in this thread again since I just discovered something about my first safe manipulation that I had not realized before, and I also thought my second post here might be of some help to Fritz in his Monkey Ward manipulation....

I liked his ideas on jotting down numbers and speed tech .

Onwards.
Going to do some spinning .I'll be back.

PS Oldfast
Have you ever picked an S & G Enviromental lock ? The kind the RR uses on switches and gates . How would you approch picking this lock without knowing the keycode (inbetween the shackle). It has 3 disks simular to a safe lock . I'm trying to figure out a picking routine thst would go thru the 8 known keycodes or all 27 possible combinations . Each disk has 3 positions. I have an extra lock you can have to practice on if you are interested.

[Oldfast]

PS Oldfast
Have you ever picked an S & G Enviromental lock ? The kind the RR uses on switches and gates . How would you approch picking this lock without knowing the keycode (inbetween the shackle). It has 3 disks simular to a safe lock . I'm trying to figure out a picking routine thst would go thru the 8 known keycodes or all 27 possible combinations . Each disk has 3 positions.

Disc-detainter locks are a bit outta my realm. So not of much help.
But there is a wealth of info around here on Environmentals... and
no shortage of people who really know what they're doing with 'em.

.....I have an extra lock you can have to practice on if you are interested.

That's all too kind of you! I have a couple of them though.
Maybe save it for someone that helps you open yours?

[Fritz the Cat]

I did the same graph now at w3 # 70 , 65 , 95 and 45 .m They all look the same except I think the peak is at 17~18 . I got a pic of graph 70 , 65 , 95 . The reason I chose 95 and 45 was that I wanted tom se something move . I had more graph movement with graph # 1 .

I want to move the peak and graph I'm trying to figure out parking . A cut away would help .

How close can the combobation numbers be to each other on the lock I have .
How close can a number be to a gate ?

Getting tired .Tomorrow

[Fritz the Cat]

Here are 3 of the 4 graphs . The second was retrived from the trash . See what I mean about the hill not going away ? I'm going to run hi low tests again tom see if my skills are better . I'm starting to think 63-65 is on w2 ?

Happy Thanksgiving !

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

Those three graphs indicate to me that the peak at 17 is located on wheel 1 or wheel 2, as all those graphs had the wheel 3 parked at different numbers.

[Fritz the Cat]

I want to agree with you jaakko . I just ran the High Low test on 65 before reading your post and they came uo 0 . The 4th graph I did indicates the same as the other three so I won't upload that one .

What should I do next ? Back to the books .

This is day 10 . I've done at least a couple hours every day on this safe and I'mstill confident I'll open it soon . Hopefully nbefore Xmas so I can move the safe out of my living room . I can always cover it whithn a sheet and put a small xmas tree on it with other decorations .

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

Well, seems that based on your middle graph of those three, wheel 3 has its currently lowest point at 65 and that can be used for parking it while mapping wheels 1 & 2 as you have done. According to your graph, you get wider contact point area in the vicinity of 17 and 62. These peaks have to be on wheels 1 and 2 as wheel 3 has been constantly at 65.

If you dial a combination 17, 62, 65, what is your contact area width? Mark it down. Then start dialing in the direction of wheel 2 until you pick up the wheel 3, continue until you pick up wheel 2 and move it 10 numbers from where it picked up. Now reverse direction, pick up wheel 3 and get it back to 65 and go check your contact area width. If it narrowed down (aka the peak disappears from your graph), the number 62 peak belongs to wheel 2 as that is the only thing that changed position. If the peak at 62 didn't go aay, it might indicate that the peak at 62 belongs to wheel 1.

Lets assume the peak at 62 disappeared when you moved wheel 2 a bit to the side of that number. Now you know that the highest point of wheel 2 is at 62, so as the gate is the exact opposite of that, the correct number for wheel 2 is 12.

Now we have (17) - 12 - (65). The brackets indicate test numbers or numbers that are not certain to be correct. Now you would dial 17 - 12 - XX, where XX is wheel 3 around. Meaning, when you dial the wheel 2 to 12, reverse rotation and just pick up wheel 3 and test your contacts. Then turn wheel 3 a bit more and go check your contacts. Continue until you have mapped wheel 3.

If nothing new pops up after mapping wheel 3, you have to map wheel 1. Dial YY - 12 - (65) and you should see wheel 1's peak and determine the gate location by offsetting with 50. Then you have YY - 12 - unknown, so it is easy to go through wheel 3 and the lock should open at some number. I would though suggest still keeping a graph of that wheel 3 in this scenario, because if wheel 1 & 2 numbers are not quite correct, you still get new data to go with.

[Fritz the Cat]

Cool. I'lltry it out . Thanks

Tried out 17 62 65 lc 95.75 rc 11.25 ca 12.5 pretty wide . rlr right ?

You mentioned.

If you dial a combination 17, 62, 65, what is your contact area width? Mark it down.

Then start dialing in the direction of wheel 2 until you pick up the wheel

I got to study the wheel action .Does that mean after the third number go right to contact area then left towords we2 62 ?

[Fritz the Cat]

OK ,I did this and got two flat lines (weird)

Now we have (17) - 12 - (65). The brackets indicate test numbers or numbers that are not certain to be correct. Now you would dial 17 - 12 - XX, where XX is wheel 3 around. Meaning, when you dial the wheel 2 to 12, reverse rotation and just pick up wheel 3 and test your contacts. Then turn wheel 3 a bit more and go check your contacts. Continue until you have mapped wheel 3.

So if wheel3 was hidden behind the combined high spots to get flat linesthen I go to the next step . Incidently when taking the LP readings the contact is very weak .it acts as it would float over the contact area LC. And tere is something in the contact area that I can feel around 3-5 ?

I'll be back

OKI did this


If nothing new pops up after mapping wheel 3, you have to map wheel 1. Dial YY - 12 - (65) and you should see wheel 1's peak and determine the gate location by offsetting with 50. Then you have YY - 12 - unknown, so it is easy to go through wheel 3 and the location..

Theres only one peak at about 20-22 I'll upload graph later, the rest of the graph is flat so I assume ten

20 - 12 - xx

I'mgoing to run this and graph w3 again .Later