Sargent Greenleaf C63 (6550) The dirtiest lock I have seen

[Riyame]

So lately I have been cleaning up some of the locks in my collection thanks to Oldfast sending me some of the proper Aeroshell 22 grease. I haven't really been documenting the process but I decided to make a post on this one because it is the dirtiest lock I have ever come across. I thought Oldfast might like to see it

It is a S&G C63 which was later changed to the 6550 in the mid 1920s. My 1927 Catalog has the changes listed and I have not seen one earlier than that to specify a date. It is a 4 wheel lock that has notches cut all around the wheels to help throw off manipulations I would assume.

This one also has a United States Safe Co dial which would place it in the 1905-1930 or so range. Squelchtone has the brother to this one.

The dial:


The back with my reminder label (which covers the change key hole)


So, just how dirty was this lock? I will let the pictures speak for themselves. Everything was just coated in what I am guessing to be white lithium grease.



So I broke out the gallon jug of Brakleen, my favorite cleaner/degreaser. Do not use it on paint though as it will strip it.


The end results


Thanks again Mike. This amount is enough to grease a couple dozen locks.


Here is something neat. On the 1st wheel (very back of the wheel pack) there is a lever on the back of it that is actuated by the change key. This lifts up the fence lever. I don't recall seeing this before on the forum.


And the aforementioned notches on the circumference of the wheel

[darksim905]

Beautiful stuff

[GWiens2001]

Wow! Never saw that method of lifting the lever either. And I like the notches on the diameter of the wheel. Are all the wheels like that? It would help make manipulation more difficult.

Gordon

[Riyame]

Wow! Never saw that method of lifting the lever either. And I like the notches on the diameter of the wheel. Are all the wheels like that? It would help make manipulation more difficult.

Gordon

Yup, all of the wheels have those notches. I have seen that before on some of my others but only the older ones.

[Malekal]

Great Scott!

[Oldfast]

.....I thought Oldfast might like to see it

And you are right! I thoroughly enjoyed having a look. This is a beautiful lock.
It looks to be in good shape. Maybe all that excess grease helped preserve it. lol

That lever is interesting. I have one in my 'miscellaneous wheel drawer' that sports
a lever like that (although I think it's newer than yours, since it's the sandwich style).

So I can see how it would lift the fence out of the gates, but I'm not sure I thoroughly
understand it. Maybe you could walk me through a combo change? I mean, do you
dial in the current combo just as if you were opening, then use the change key?
Guess I'm wondering why the fence would be dropped into the gates at that time.

And the notches around the wheel... yeah.... that's sexy. Maybe even individually hand-filed?

[Riyame]

Well, these old ones do not have a change index. You dial them normally and then insert the change key. Dial the new combination as normal and remove the change key.

I actually took apart another newer 6535 (20-40s? or so) tonight to clean and grease and it had the same lever on the back wheel but no notches around the outside.

[Oldfast]

Yeah. So dialing the combo (without that final turn) would allow the wheels
to align but not have the fence drop in. The change key would then be used.

So I'm thinking that lever is there for 'user error'. Alot of users would probably
be naturally drawn to taking that final turn, which would obviously drop the
fence into the wheel pack. THAT's where this lever comes into play.

I guess. Maybe

But then again, once the inner hubs are free from the outer hubs,
would it even matter if the fence were dropped in? Also, would not
the drive cam itself do the same job once it is turned - pushing the
fence up and out of the wheel pack? Hell, lol, I dunno... it's been a
long couple weeks. Maybe I'm thinking of this entirely wrong. lol

[Riyame]

No, the gates would be lined up and the fence would fall in once the drive cam got to the right spot as you are dialing in the new combination. The lever on the back wheel keeps it up so that it does not end up trying to retract the bolt and breaking the wheels or change key.

[Oldfast]

Ooooooh, ok! I got it, yeah. As a hands-on learner I was having a difficult time visualizing it.
Makes sense now. Every turn you take while setting the new combo would screw shit up.

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

Wow! Never saw that method of lifting the lever either. And I like the notches on the diameter of the wheel. Are all the wheels like that? It would help make manipulation more difficult.

Gordon

Well, it depends how the notching is done. If they are evenly spaced, then the manipulation time is actually reduced quite much as you only have to find a place of one notch or gate on all wheels and then you have a table of all the possible values that a gate could be at. Even worse is if the notches are not the same width as the gate, as that would allow distinguishing if it is a real gate or not.

On other locks there are also evenly spaced notches or polygon shaped wheels, all of which just eases the manipulation work.

[femurat]

Wow! Never saw that method of lifting the lever either. And I like the notches on the diameter of the wheel. Are all the wheels like that? It would help make manipulation more difficult.

Gordon

Well, it depends how the notching is done. If they are evenly spaced, then the manipulation time is actually reduced quite much as you only have to find a place of one notch or gate on all wheels and then you have a table of all the possible values that a gate could be at. Even worse is if the notches are not the same width as the gate, as that would allow distinguishing if it is a real gate or not.

On other locks there are also evenly spaced notches or polygon shaped wheels, all of which just eases the manipulation work.

Only if you know exactly what you're dealing with.
If you expect standard wheels and get grooved ones you'll be quite confused.

Cheers

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

Only if you know exactly what you're dealing with.
If you expect standard wheels and get grooved ones you'll be quite confused.

Cheers

Yup, didn't feel the need to even mention that, as usually when yo are opening something you have an idea of what you are up against. If going totally blind, then yes, those notches will come as a surprise.

[Riyame]

They are kind of even but are slightly off. You can see in the picture in the middle where one is really thin and the one above it is a fair bit wider.