Group 1 manipulation

[webpirate]

Does anyone know where I can find the info for group 1 manipulation? I mastered group 2 and now that I have a group 1 8500 S&G I want to up my game..

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

From cave drawings to rocket surgery? I would advice getting your hands on a group 2M lock first, because it will act as a stepping stone for group 1 locks.

But to answer in short, you are most likely to find the correct answers by yourself with the lock, as there is very few that can do group 1's.

[webpirate]

from what I can tell its impossible... unless by chance the handle to the safe is set up against the front of the lock bolt which would allow pressure to be placed against the bolt and forcing contact with the drive cam.. (I am being purposely vague so not to tip off would be criminals..)

[tumbl3r]

As I understand it, group 1 locks cannot be manipulated... Is this understanding incorrect? If so, my mind will be blown!

[Riyame]

There are ways to manipulate group 1 locks. It is not easy and takes a long time but it is possible. They are very closely guarded secrets.

[jharveee]

MBA (http://mbausa.com/)
offers a course that includes some group 1 locks.

[tumbl3r]

That's just amazing to me! Now I'm going to have to burn some serious brain cells trying to come up with how an 8500 could leak any useful information... I love it when my idea of what is possible gets expanded!

[Josephus]

I only know of one method for one type. It's easy, just a couple extra steps with some math but takes a loooong time and includes a deadzone where brute forcing is needed if the gate isn't found elsewhere. Any other entry method would be more consistent and faster.

[webpirate]

I investigated the 8500 lock and even when you go to 0 and press in, the nose never comes into contact with the drive cam . so theoretically its impossible under proper installation to manipulate. But in a situation where the bolt work of the safe puts pressure on the front of the bolt of the lock, that pressure would push the nose into contact with the drive can and make manipulation possible... So if you had the specs on the safe you could drill a hole in a way that a tool could be inserted to put pressure on the bolt..
So its safe to say the lock is manipulation proof without some kind of external interference...

[tumbl3r]

I'm just now getting started learning group 2 manipulation. I really only have one successful manipulation under my belt, so I'm a very, VERY long way from group 2M, let alone group 1. I fully understand and appreciate why the techniques for manipulating these are kept secret.

[webpirate]

There is the try every possible combo method as well.. But that's no fun

[webpirate]

Here is something fun... Convert an 8500 into a 6700 by swapping out the nose... Its super hard...

[magician59]

I investigated the 8500 lock and even when you go to 0 and press in, the nose never comes into contact with the drive cam . so theoretically its impossible under proper installation to manipulate. But in a situation where the bolt work of the safe puts pressure on the front of the bolt of the lock, that pressure would push the nose into contact with the drive can and make manipulation possible... So if you had the specs on the safe you could drill a hole in a way that a tool could be inserted to put pressure on the bolt..
So its safe to say the lock is manipulation proof without some kind of external interference...

Hahaha...If you could get that far into the safe, you might as well put your hole where you can see the wheels, and open the lock by sight.

[magician59]

There is the try every possible combo method as well.. But that's no fun

...unless it works.

[webpirate]

Usually I brag about 15-30 minute group 2 manipulations.. Well after getting my hands on the 8500 and swapping the lever out for a non manipulation proof one (essentially making it a group 2 lock) its proving to be a real challenge to manipulate this lock...I guess on top of the special lever the wheel pack is more precisely machined as well