FAQ  •  Register  •  Login
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Beginner's guide to opening a safe.

<<

pickmonger2

Active Member

Posts: 418

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:33 pm

Location: Ontario

Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:09 pm

Beginner's guide to opening a safe.

An interesting introduction to opening a safe from Wikihow.

Its a chance to learn some of the basic vocabulary and method of operation.

http://www.wikihow.com/Crack-a-Safe
<<

escher7

Active Member

Posts: 696

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:20 am

Location: Canada

Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:38 pm

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

It is actually a good link (39 pages if converted to pdf) with very clear photos.
<<

Malekal

User avatar

Familiar Face

Posts: 204

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:36 pm

Location: Quebec, Canada

Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:08 pm

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

Gives me the desire to try!
Malekal: I guess I'll try... I thought you had to go light
xeo: you do whatever the lock wants
<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 999

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:14 am

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:02 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

After looking at the Graphing portion of this "How To" I am left with questions.
Perhaps its the way the information is presented?
Or maybe cause its not the way I learned.
Seems to me the graphing is showing the Right contact point in some locations has a lower value than the Left contact point.?
And vise versa.
Like I said, I may be totally misunderstanding how this graph works.
Please explain.(anyone)
Last edited by jharveee on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<<

LocksportSouth

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 369

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:51 pm

Location: UK

Post Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

I've just had a brief glance through but this looks very well explained, less brain-achy than the safe manipulation PDF that I have (National Locksmith one) so I'll def. give this a read over. Thanks for sharing this!
<<

Themisl

Newbie

Posts: 8

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:24 am

Location: Greece

Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:22 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

Hi there to all.

I am new to this forum and to safe manipulation. In fact i haven't joined any other forum in the past until i decided to start playing with my parents' safe that sat at the back of the closet unused around 20 years now. Of course as in most cases the safe was locked with the combination and all manuals locked inside.

I have read all these manuals including the article of Matt Blaze http://www.crypto.com/papers/safelocks.pdf and the book form Daggers in this forum.
However i am still left with a lot of questions regarding direct entry locks.
Possibly because the safe's lock i am in front of, does not seem to have the same "feeling" of movement like any other direct entry lock i have read of in this forum.
It looks like the cheap chinese ones, with a brand name "VEPOX" that appears only on some japanese sites.

Does anyone have any clue about more detailed information on direct entry locks?

Thanks in advance
<<

femurat

User avatar

Prolific Poster

Posts: 1451

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:47 pm

Location: Italy

Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:59 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

jharveee, I skimmed trough the guide and, like you said, the graph part is a bit confusing.

Themisl, you may find this post by Altashot, and the linked story, very interesting viewtopic.php?f=96&t=8256&start=15#p76246

Cheers :)
<<

Themisl

Newbie

Posts: 8

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:24 am

Location: Greece

Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:23 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

femurat - Thanks for the reply.

I have read most of these links. Especially Altashot's and Oldfast's. They have great posts. I might be missing some information on direct entry locks though.

My problem is that in my case i can't feel gates on the drive cam. Only one gate that locks the fench.
Also my safe does not have a lever but a key. Like the Altashot's link you posted.

Applying sufficient amount of pressure (for a key, in order not to break it) i can feel the fence drag on the wheel pack or drive cam ( i can't realy tell where the fench rests on). There are some spots that i can feel the fench click on something until i reach at the spot where that one gate is and locks the fench. This area is almost 5 increments wide.

Any ideas?
<<

femurat

User avatar

Prolific Poster

Posts: 1451

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:47 pm

Location: Italy

Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:33 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

since you've found your "last number", use it. check all the other wheels around after dialing that last number.
if this doesn't make sense, read the chapter about direct entry locks on "the national locksmith guide to manipulation".

cheers :)
<<

femurat

User avatar

Prolific Poster

Posts: 1451

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:47 pm

Location: Italy

Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:47 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

just to be clear, the center of the area almost 5 increments wide you found is the last number of your combination.

cheers :)
<<

Themisl

Newbie

Posts: 8

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:24 am

Location: Greece

Post Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

I also thought that this should be the last wheel's number. Actually the drive cam's gate. Following the guidelines of all manuals i have read i think the lock has 3 wheels and a drive cam. So if the fence rests mainly on the drive cam this "gap" it falls into should be the gate of the drive cam.

My problem is that i am still trying to understand the measuring procedure on direct entry locks. The fact that we are not looking for left or right contact points but for the diameter of the wheel pack along with false gates confuses me in terms of which exact point we should measure. I have read the The National Guide but it does't have a detailed method on direct entry locks. I am reading this chapter again and again in case i am missing some information.

If i have understood right (please correct me if i am wrong) now that i have possibly found the drive cam's gate, i should always measure the movement of the key on that particular number in order to find the other 3 numbers.

My other problem is that i can't feel any essential movement of the key while i hold and turn it. I am not sure if in my case it is worth usind any pointer. I suppose that if there was a minute movement on a low point or gate we should be able to feel it on the handle or key and the pointer tool should be used in order to amplify the results. Right?
<<

femurat

User avatar

Prolific Poster

Posts: 1451

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:47 pm

Location: Italy

Post Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

Themisl wrote:If i have understood right (please correct me if i am wrong) now that i have possibly found the drive cam's gate, i should always measure the movement of the key on that particular number in order to find the other 3 numbers.


Exactly.

Themisl wrote:My other problem is that i can't feel any essential movement of the key while i hold and turn it. I am not sure if in my case it is worth usind any pointer. I suppose that if there was a minute movement on a low point or gate we should be able to feel it on the handle or key and the pointer tool should be used in order to amplify the results. Right?


You definitely need a pointer attached to the key, and an uniform force that turns the key, like a rubber band or a weight.

Good luck :)
<<

Themisl

Newbie

Posts: 8

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:24 am

Location: Greece

Post Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:06 am

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

Thanks femurat.

Another problem now is that i can't apply stead and permanent pressure to the key because each time a set the drive cam to it's gate the dial is blocked in that area. I have to release the pressure in order to move the dial to the next numbers for measurement. Then apply again pressure on the key to measure
<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 999

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:14 am

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:06 pm

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

Sounds like your getting stuck in the false gates.
Unless your safe doesn't have false gates, which may mean you've found another real gate on another wheel.
Release pressure and test the rest of the wheel pack to see if this continues to happens.
<<

Altashot

Active Member

Posts: 424

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:32 pm

Location: Western Canada

Post Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:48 pm

Re: Beginers guide to opening a safe.

Themisl wrote:
Another problem now is that i can't apply stead and permanent pressure to the key because each time a set the drive cam to it's gate the dial is blocked in that area. I have to release the pressure in order to move the dial to the next numbers for measurement. Then apply again pressure on the key to measure


That is normal that the dial locks up when the fence is captured by the drive cam gate. This is where you want to measure the fence penetration. Then release the tension, and move the wheel pack
another 3 numbers, go back to the known gate on the drive cam, let the key turn and read the measurement again...
...Repeat this procedure until you find a low point. expect the differences in penetration readings to be very minute, even when a new gate lines up.
next, find out what wheel that new found gate is, and assure that this gate and the drive cam gate are below the fence when taking the readings. Continue the above procedure until you find the next gate.
Once you find the third gate, just dial the comb, working in 3 steps on the unknown wheel.

To take readings, I used to use a long wire, sometimes 3 feet long to amplify the minute differences, but I now, have abandoned this method.
I now use a laser pointer and point it at an object as far away as possible. A tiny difference here, is a much larger difference over there.

Hope this helps.

Image
Image
Image

Here I had the pointer taped to the handle, but you can rig something to tape it to the key. I don't use mechanical "pressure devices", I rely on
my hand pressure to be constant. Comes with practice.

Have fun!

M.
Next

Return to Safes, Strongboxes & Combination Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware