La Gard manipulation Help

[jharveee]

La Gard 3330 a.JPG

La Gard 3330 b.JPG

One of my gifts for Christmas was a brand new La Gard 3330 safe lock and mount.
The other day I had time to put it together.
Well it sure doesn't manipulate like my S and G 6730.
Hoping for some insight.
My first graph is AWL.
I haven't really picked a coarse of action yet.
My areas of interest:
RCP 5-10 20 50-65
LCP 10 20 55-65
I was thinking about parking wheels 1 and 2 at 55 and spinning wheel 3 around alone to see if a gate would pop out.?
20 feels like a gate to me. I checked it and it still indicates.

[S&G]

I only read the thread quickly but it may be a clue, Altashot talks about the wheels getting wider at either side of the gate, theoretically.

http://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php ... ard#p79047

pictures & theory:

http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Altashot/story/71817

[GWiens2001]

Agree with 20 and 50-65 area, and possibly 10. Based on that, you could try 50-25-50 just for giggles.

Gordon

[jharveee]

Thanks,
Well it's a new day. Went to bed, and slept on it.
Today I am going to try Gordon's test combo, and then Amplify 20 and assign it a wheel by doing a High/low test.
I fiddled around with it (the lock) last night, and I'm pretty sure that 20 is not on wheel 3.
So I just may, set wheels 1 and 2 on 20,using it as a low spot(possible gate). Graph wheel 3 around left, all by itself.

[Oldfast]

Still one of my kryptonites I'll admit... so I'm always excited to see someone exploring LaGards!

In the past I've tried to utilize both the highs & lows to tryn' decipher what's going on. And this has
given me some success. However, Altashot's theory (as mentioned above) seems very promising.
That is where my focus will be when I eventually return to the 'LaGard Project'.... aaaagain. lol

BTW, really like your graph set-up there. Very nice.

[jharveee]

Got the Graph from a class I took couple months ago.
Principals of Safe Manipulation, Safe Lock Servicing and Troubleshooting.
Clark's Security Expo.
ALOA
Harry Sher was the instructor. Great guy and teacher.
There are Dollar signs on the graph where your contact points get closer!
Open the safe and get paid!

La Gard 3330 c.JPG

My wife the combo setter has confirmed that 20 is a gate.
My attempts with high/low test have only left me sure that 20(gate) is NOT on wheel 3.
I placed wheels 1 and 2 on 20R and spun 3 AL.
Was hoping I would get a clear gate indication on 3, but still confused.
Any thoughts?

[Oldfast]

Was hoping I would get a clear gate indication on 3, but still confused.
Any thoughts?

Not the nice gate sig you were hoping for no. But 60 (be it a gate or just a low area) is definitely key for w3.
Maybe parking it there will now allow you to definitively tag 20 to wheels 1 or 2? Hi/low test and/or isolation.

[femurat]

I agree with Oldfast, use the newly found low area at 60 to find out which wheel has a gate at 20.

I noticed you skipped the forbidden area. You shouldn't. 100 looks promising too on your graph, and who set the combination may have made a mistake...

Cheers

[jharveee]

Femurat,
You have a good Eye! As 99 has turned out to be a gate on wheel 3. I did do a 3rd graph where w3 @ 60r / w1&2 Al.
Combo ended up being 72-20-99.
I give this round to La Gard.
wish I had seen 99 at the end of graph #2.

Only one thing to do now..........more practice.

[magician59]

Femurat,
You have a good Eye! As 99 has turned out to be a gate on wheel 3. I did do a 3rd graph where w3 @ 60r / w1&2 Al.
Combo ended up being 72-20-99.
I give this round to La Gard.
wish I had seen 99 at the end of graph #2.

Only one thing to do now..........more practice.

...AND instruct your combination changer NEVER to set the last number in that forbidden zone. The result isn't that bad on a mounted display lock; but customers unable to lock their safes when the drive cam traps the fence HAVE been known to damage their locks, trying to force them.

[twenglish 1]

I too have had difficultys with my lagard locks my first manipulation(an actual locked safe with unknown combo) was one of the Chinese lagards, it gave up its numbers relatively easily once I learned enough about manipulating and got practice reading contact points, my next was a lagard 3330, much more difficult, had one successful manipulation on it and haven't been able to get it again, even after attempting a few combo changes

[jharveee]

Just had to Brag.
Third time was the charm.
Today I was able to manipulate open my La Gard 3330.
Sorry, no graphs to show my work.
Just chicken scratches on a note pad.

Pretty much was text book.
AWL checking right contacts points only.
Found indication at 22.5
Amplified to get gate center at 21.
High/ low test tagged 21 on wheel 2.
Parked 1 and 2 @ 21R, spun W3 AL.
Found 86 on wheel 3.
Brute forced wheel 1.
Opened on 74-21-86.
Combo had been set by my wife to 75-21-86.

The other attempts, I had trouble figuring out which wheel was indicating.
This time, when I performed High/low test I narrow the distance from the gates.
Normally on a High test I would add ten to the number of interest and on a Low test subtract 10 numbers.
Instead I added/subtracted 5 numbers.
Thinking it was far enough to move the gate out from underneath the fence, But not far enough that masking from the other wheels would hide reliable results.
Seem to work.

[Oldfast]

Nice! And here...

....Normally on a High test I would add ten to the number of interest and on a Low test subtract 10 numbers.
Instead I added/subtracted 5 numbers.....

I tend to agree with you, and not just with LaGards, but manipulation in general.
I have no proof to back it... but for some time now I've often wondered if 10 incs
is too far to be throwing wheels. Although I haven't entirely abandoned 10 incs...
more often than not I will throw wheels by 5 or 7 incs.

[femurat]

Congrats man!

I hate having to brute force wheel #1.
Taking notes of the latest low spot is enough to manipulate. You don't need to graph. Having a graph is a big help if something goes wrong, because you can look back and may be able to deduce something by comparing two graphs. But if everything goes as expected, you don't need it.

5 increments for the high-low test? Interesting idea, will check if it helps me next time.

Cheers

[GWiens2001]

Good work. Now you are indeed hooked. More spinners!

Gordon