Help with first safe (large victor) locked, no known number

[Fabricator-X]

Unsane finally accepted my offer to work on this a bit together with me on the phone and him in front of his safe. Based on the information posted here I encouraged him to try to determine if his lock is a driect dirve. I think he found that it is and that pulling the handle one way or the other (I don't remember which way we found best) he could feel the lever riding on the drive wheel. That would be until it reached the gap in the drive wheel where he would not feel it riding, but then he would feel a slight touch of the lever on the wheel either side of the gap.

Doing that he reported that it felt like the gap was about 91 to 6, crossing the zero. Based on that I had him do all wheels right about 5 or 6 times then stop at 90 and then go back left to the gap and see what he could feel. Then he found that he could not really feel anything around 91 , but he could feel the other side of the gap. He reported it as about 5.4. After trying this some more at 88 and 86 and he still couldn't feel the contact around 91 any more, I suggested that he may be able to graph the wheels using just the right side of the gap. I left him doing that, but have not heard how that might have come out, yet.

[unsane]

After reading g chapter four of the National locksmiths guide to manipulation, I am fairly certain that the type of lock I have is a fixed drive pin lock. I believe the reason I have been having so much trouble is because of stacking g and the drive pin widths throwing me off...... I plan to re read this chapter and take a better attempt. Didn't call ya back Jerry because frankly I couldn't find anything u were trying to help me find, and didn't want to waste your time.

[Fabricator-X]

Somebody on here that knows a lot more about this than you or I is going to suggest that the drive pins are not all fixed, but rather pins and flies. Either way, however, it makes no difference in doing what I am trying to have you do. Once the wheels are stacked AWR, for example, as I had you doing, the pins do not come into play in graphing all of them together to try to find at least one of the numbers. When you do find a number in your first graph it is most likely to be on the first or third wheel. That is why I have you dialing AWR, because with a Yale lock I think the combination, when found, will likely be run RLRL. With fixed pins, finding the first or third number, AWR will make it the correct number for the first or third wheel either of which will be dialed in the combination to the Right.

Once you are able to find any number in your first graph, you can test your theory about the drive pins by graphing again, but with AWL. If the same number comes up it will tell you that you have pins and flies rather than all fixed pins.

There is a lot of good information in the Manual, except there is nothing or almost nothing in there about manipulating a direct drive lock. Most of the information is the same, but I was surprised to see almost no mention of direct drive locks in any of the written material I found in my searches. Both of the locks I manipulated are direct drive.

"Both" is the important word here, because, again, I think we have the blind leading the blind, and by long distance tooboot.