Page 1 of 2

Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:03 pm
by williamjcoates
Hi All.
I would like to use a rotary encoder to measure the dial movement for safe manipulation. Basically attach the rotary encoder to the dial and track the movement of it and display this in a digital readout. I thought something like this would take the guess work out of what the actual gap between the contacts was as apposed to looking at the vernier scale I have mounted on the dial. Anyone done something like this or knows how I could build such a unit?
Bill

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:00 pm
by dmasters
TSM by Zieh-Fix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu_U5OlfXyY

I believe it's been posted before.

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:27 pm
by williamjcoates
Hi, thanks for the reply. Ya I saw the TSM before. Sweet setup. Price for it is crazy though. I want to use a rotary encoder like they have but only to indicate the position of the dial at a given point. Would be perfect for measuring the cam gap. I know sparkfun sells rotary encoders and also uses adruino. I just wondered if anyone had done anything similar to this and had info on how to do it.

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:21 pm
by dmasters
A while ago I was hammering out some details for a similar device, but what threw me off of it was the necessary encoder resolution to make it worthwhile as a manipulation aid. My thoughts were for an absolute positioning multiturn optical encoder in the neighborhood of 1,000 pulses per revolution which would effectively divide each number on a standard 100# dial into 10ths for blistering accuracy. Problem is, I don't have $400 to even test my theory :) And even cutting the resolution to 500 barely lowers the price of the device, anything lower than that and you're almost defeating the purpose. I guess even a 200 would still be able to deliver 1/2 number increments.

Now you're gonna make me dig out my notes...

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:06 pm
by Jaakko Fagerlund
I have such a device, it has a 1000 PPR rotary encoder, Arduino reading it and PC software that is in prototype phase at the moment to graph it all and to save data. Price point is still open, but *way* lower than the TSM which sells in the thousands according to Wendt catalog.

Basically the 1000 PPR encoder means that on a 100 number dial, each number is divided by 40, so the resolution is huge :) And it really makes the gates pop up on screen, as it is down to touch only and no interpreting errors with numbers.

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:55 pm
by williamjcoates
Hi guys....
Thanks again for the replies.
Your prototype Jaakko certainly sounds like the real deal. I guess you are going to put it together with the intention of selling it. You will probably do well. If I had the money I would be interested. But I am working on a small budget and would be really interested in putting together something.

Whats the cost breakdown for your project Dmasters? On sparkfun you can buy a Rotary Encoder - 1024 P/R (Quadrature) for $39 which outputs gray code. It says by using a micro controller you can determine what direction the shaft was moving and by how much. it also says it could also be used as a very precise input knob. I think that could be the ticket. I was only thinking of trying to hook something like this up to get the precise measurement of the dial movement and output it to a digital readout to three decimal places. 0.000

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:55 pm
by Jaakko Fagerlund
williamjcoates wrote:Hi guys....
Thanks again for the replies.
Your prototype Jaakko certainly sounds like the real deal. I guess you are going to put it together with the intention of selling it. You will probably do well. If I had the money I would be interested. But I am working on a small budget and would be really interested in putting together something.

Whats the cost breakdown for your project Dmasters? On sparkfun you can buy a Rotary Encoder - 1024 P/R (Quadrature) for $39 which outputs gray code. It says by using a micro controller you can determine what direction the shaft was moving and by how much. it also says it could also be used as a very precise input knob. I think that could be the ticket. I was only thinking of trying to hook something like this up to get the precise measurement of the dial movement and output it to a digital readout to three decimal places. 0.000

Yes, my plan is to sell it, but just the actual physical device, as the software I'm writing will be open source and free for everyone to use :) The actual device doesn't cost much, so we are not talking big money here.

For doing it yourself, get a quadrature encoder with 1000 PPR output from eBay, get an Arduino and use the two hardware interrupts (pins 2 & 3 on UNO or similar), make an interrupt handler that reads the encoder and that's about it for the hardware part, of course you have to send the calculated value to a display or computer for more processing, but the idea is there.

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:46 pm
by dmasters
My pricing was based on Digikey from at least a year ago, this was before I started getting most of my components from eBay. The idea was just another page in my notebook, but now I have renewed vigor :hbg: My original plan was to code it in Python and run it from a Raspberry Pi with a small TFT LCD. The Pi may be overkill, but I haven't played around with graphics on the Arduino beyond a Nokia 5110 screen, so I don't know if it is capable of what I was intending to do. But now, there is also the Espruino, an Open Source Java-based dev board. I hate Java, but I can't stop staring at it... Well, shit. This project is back within the realms of my budget!

Jaakko, keep me updated, I would love to see what you've got going on :)

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:03 pm
by Jaakko Fagerlund
dmasters wrote:My pricing was based on Digikey from at least a year ago, this was before I started getting most of my components from eBay. The idea was just another page in my notebook, but now I have renewed vigor :hbg: My original plan was to code it in Python and run it from a Raspberry Pi with a small TFT LCD. The Pi may be overkill, but I haven't played around with graphics on the Arduino beyond a Nokia 5110 screen, so I don't know if it is capable of what I was intending to do. But now, there is also the Espruino, an Open Source Java-based dev board. I hate Java, but I can't stop staring at it... Well, shit. This project is back within the realms of my budget!

Jaakko, keep me updated, I would love to see what you've got going on :)

Arduino can definately do it, I had my first prototype with me in LockCon. It had an Arduino MEGA 2560, around 4" touch screen TFT LCD, an SD card for storage and fits in a small case. Worked, was nice, but I figured it is just easier and cheaper to make a simple encoder reader and do all the graphics on a computer as that way I don't have to rely on other companies producing just the right electronics, it is more robus in design, less money and most people have a laptop or similar with USB on it to use the software. It thus allows people to use whatever device they want to display the information on :)

Currently my software can plot 3 or 4 wheel locks, show RCP/LCP graphs or the difference between them, suggests the best known combination and saves all the data for later analysis or for continuing work later. The graphics are very simple and the software easily adapts to different systems.

Once I get the software "done", I'll upload it for everyone to use and also start selling the actual encoder systems.

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:04 am
by williamjcoates
Wow this is great. I am going to definitely buy an encoder and an arduino. I have been reading stuff on their forums trying to familiarize myself with how it works, On a basic level that is, Gotta start somewhere. I too would love to hear more about your program jaakko. It sounds awesome.

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:35 pm
by Jaakko Fagerlund
williamjcoates wrote:Wow this is great. I am going to definitely buy an encoder and an arduino. I have been reading stuff on their forums trying to familiarize myself with how it works, On a basic level that is, Gotta start somewhere. I too would love to hear more about your program jaakko. It sounds awesome.

If you need help with the Arduino, just PM/email me and I'm glad to help out. I have done some serious stuff with it and generally know more than enough about it and coding ;)

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:48 pm
by oldlock
vaultlock.PNG


40 graduations per number is plenty.

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:55 pm
by williamjcoates
Hi All,
Well I have been working on a prototype rotary encoder device that will accurately measure the cam gap.
Image
Ya I know its rustic looking. I have a 1024 ppr rotary encoder which will be attached to a Arduino Mega 2560. Attached to that will be a 7 segment-4 digit display. I am just waiting on a couple of parts to put it all together. The big red cylinder is actually a magnet which is attached to a metal disc that I two way taped to the dial. The dial spins okay but I need to center the encoder better to reduce the slight friction I feel. Once I figure out how to wire up the encoder correctly and get some readings I will work on modifying the bracket that holds the encoder in place. Ultimately I would like to use light weight material, and also add more functions like wheel pack position and possibly graphing features. But I am new to Arduino and have no idea how to tackle that at this point. So for now it is a wish list. If anyone has any ideas on how I can improve on the design or knowledge on the software end, would love to hear it.
Bill

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:34 pm
by S&G
oldlock wrote:
vaultlock.PNG


40 graduations per number is plenty.


Where did this photo come from???

Did you have one of these machines?

Re: Rotary Encoder

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:34 pm
by AL usher69
Jaakko Fagerlund wrote:
dmasters wrote:My pricing was based on Digikey from at least a year ago, this was before I started getting most of my components from eBay. The idea was just another page in my notebook, but now I have renewed vigor :hbg: My original plan was to code it in Python and run it from a Raspberry Pi with a small TFT LCD. The Pi may be overkill, but I haven't played around with graphics on the Arduino beyond a Nokia 5110 screen, so I don't know if it is capable of what I was intending to do. But now, there is also the Espruino, an Open Source Java-based dev board. I hate Java, but I can't stop staring at it... Well, shit. This project is back within the realms of my budget!

Jaakko, keep me updated, I would love to see what you've got going on :)

Arduino can definately do it, I had my first prototype with me in
LockCon. It had an Arduino MEGA 2560, around 4" touch screen TFT LCD, an SD card for storage and fits in a small case. Worked, was nice, but I figured it is just easier and cheaper to make a simple encoder reader and do all the graphics on a computer as that way I don't have to rely on other companies producing just the right electronics, it is more robus in design, less money and most people have a laptop or similar with USB on it to use the software. It thus allows people to use whatever device they want to display the information on :)

Currently my software can plot 3 or 4 wheel locks, show RCP/LCP graphs or the difference between them, suggests the best known combination and saves all the data for later analysis or for continuing work later. The graphics are very simple and the software easily adapts to different systems.

Once I get the software "done", I'll upload it for everyone to use and also start selling the actual encoder systems.

Please let me know about your software when your done. Thanks