FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Lock manipulation without graphs?

<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 55

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:43 am

Lock manipulation without graphs?

Lock manipulation without graphs.Is it possible and how it works?
Some time ago I had seen this video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_4HQMS-pk[/youtube]

After that, I forgot about it. But now, I read http://www.mbausa.com/course_9.asp?e=1

" Learn how to open U.L. listed Group 2 combination locks through the use of touch, sight, sound, and mind in this ground breaking class. Forget about graphs and complicated dialing sequences. This class enables you to understand the lock in a way few people do.
...................................
How to detect small differences in contact point variation - without graphs or magnifiers
............................
Would you like to toss out all the books and graphs you've tried in the past and develop a genuine understanding of manipulation?
.....................................
"

Have you any idea how it works?
<<

wrench214

User avatar

I've Been Banned!!
I've Been Banned!!

Posts: 16

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:08 am

Location: Texas

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:07 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

I cannot answer how... but I can answer yes it is possible. i am not a safe lock tech like others on here, but I'm a fan of Jeff Sitar ...
http://www.jeffsitarsafecracker.net/

he only cracks safes by feel. but why limit yourself. learn the easiest method first, then with years of practice, slowly start eliminating tools from the tool bag you no longer need. any tool that helps, is a good tool.
<<

Daggers

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 585

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:33 am

Location: Florida, US

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

After you've been graphing for a while, you get a feel of what it's like when it hit's the right spot. You'll be able to notice the drop on the dial. Just keep the last number in your head and if there's a significant drop, that's probably your number. If it drops a bit more than normal, but not enough to be sure, just keep that number in mind as you keep going around the dial and if there aren't any other drops that stand out, then do high/low testing or whatever method you use to test that drop.
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 55

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

wrench214 wrote:I cannot answer how... but I can answer yes it is possible. i am not a safe lock tech like others on here, but I'm a fan of Jeff Sitar ...
http://www.jeffsitarsafecracker.net/

he only cracks safes by feel. but why limit yourself. learn the easiest method first, then with years of practice, slowly start eliminating tools from the tool bag you no longer need. any tool that helps, is a good tool.


If you are his fan, so can you email him and ask about his technique ? Maybe he will answer briefly? :cool:
My poor English prevent me do this.
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 55

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:53 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

Daggers wrote:After you've been graphing for a while, you get a feel of what it's like when it hit's the right spot. You'll be able to notice the drop on the dial. Just keep the last number in your head and if there's a significant drop, that's probably your number. If it drops a bit more than normal, but not enough to be sure, just keep that number in mind as you keep going around the dial and if there aren't any other drops that stand out, then do high/low testing or whatever method you use to test that drop.


So, you think at video he manipulates good lock which wheels indicate w3-w2-w1. Also lock has clear contact points and he uses one contact point only(left or right). All supposed gate points he keeps in memory. And open the lock with about 6 minutes?
<<

Daggers

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 585

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:33 am

Location: Florida, US

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

Yeah. I don't know what lock he was manipulating in that video but with a time like that, the wheels would've had to read in 3-2-1 order and he might've only tested one wheel at a time instead of having to spin the entire wheel pack. And definitely only using the right contact point.
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 55

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

Daggers wrote:Yeah. I don't know what lock he was manipulating in that video .

I believe it was a s&G 6700 because form of the wheel. Lagard uses other type of a wheel. Also s&g internal relocker.
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 55

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:44 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

Daggers wrote: might've only tested one wheel at a time instead of having to spin the entire wheel pack. And definitely only using the right contact point.

Thanks!
<<

webpirate

Familiar Face

Posts: 109

Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:22 am

Location: Winnipeg

Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:50 am

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

Oh its possible..... :) I do it while walking down the street and while riding the bus.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfvhYchJqY
<<

mastersmith

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 553

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 10:16 pm

Location: Miami Township, Ohio

Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:54 am

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

The 2 day manipulation course I took MANY moons ago didn't even teach graphing. They explained it, called it out-moded and left it at that. Graphing is a very old concept.
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
<<

flywheel

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 650

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:08 pm

Location: USA

Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:06 am

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

Some might have the skills and experience to do without, but "a short pencil is better than a long memory."
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 55

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:48 am

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

webpirate wrote:Oh its possible..... :) I do it while walking down the street and while riding the bus.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfvhYchJqY


Make some description of your movement for usual people. :mrgreen:
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 55

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:53 am

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

mastersmith wrote:The 2 day manipulation course I took MANY moons ago didn't even teach graphing. They explained it, called it out-moded and left it at that. Graphing is a very old concept.

So, you mean there is some new manipulation concept? Can you tell us about it? :cool:
<<

mastersmith

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 553

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 10:16 pm

Location: Miami Township, Ohio

Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:23 pm

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

No, not new. The concepts are the same, how much you document is the only difference. While graphing you document ALL of your readings when all you need to know are the DIFFERENT readings. If you don't find a difference, ignore it.
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
<<

webpirate

Familiar Face

Posts: 109

Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:22 am

Location: Winnipeg

Post Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:58 am

Re: Lock manipulation without graphs?

Sometimes you can hear and feel the difference... Once in a while I will look at the lock to move the wheel where I want and then look away to see if I can hear and feel a difference from the last number I tried... I am always looking for ways to test myself..
Next

Return to Safes, Strongboxes & Combination Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware