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Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

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penguin8

Newbie

Posts: 10

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:03 am

Location: Illinois

Post Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:44 pm

Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Hi everyone, I was reading this forum for a while trying to open an old safe sitting in my studio.
We got this box from our previous location (old renter left it there). It was open and no one had a combination.
We used it just as a fireproof cabinet, never tried to lock or find out combination.
Some day (no school) my partner brought his kids, and boys were playing around in the studio.
Safe got locked. Thanks God they didn't lock one inside.
Well that was the moment I discovered the whole world of lock-picking and safe manipulation :-)
I started with simple google search for solution or idea to open the cabinet ( safe).
Many month later I am all in.
I collected some factory preset combinations ( no luck opening)
I got a book (:-), I have a S&G cutaway lock. I would say I have success to manipulate
this cutaway lock. Many thanks to the information from this forum members. Oldfast and Daggers posts were
huge in information and techniques.
But my fire cabinet lock is not even close in feeling as a S&G 6700 series I have.
I have feeling that my lock is something like Yale OC5. I read few topicks here that this kind lock
my be a problem even for experienced pro. Gwiens 2001 possibly have extended knowledge about this
kind locks.
My safe is about 5' tall and about 3' wide. It has Yale dial in the middle of the door and handle located left from
dial. from what I was able to find those cabinets where manufactured around 1920-1940
Dial spins freely but not as a new locks. It is hart to find LCP or RCP. I can hear click when dial is around 50.
I head that OC5 locks have only 1 CP.
I would appreciate any suggestions about lock operations and if working with 1 contact point will be same routine as
working with 2 CP.
I have no idea if there 3 or 4 wheels and I heard that combination should be dialed opposite directions.
Please look at the pictures and let me know if someone know the proper way to dial combinations on such lock.
I understand that it will be hard to say the lock model looking at the dial but may be someone had experience with
same cabinet.
I also understand that new member may not receive warm welcome and get some quality advice. But still Any help will make me
one step closer to open the safe.
I read many files, PDFs and topics, I can successfully manipulate modern lock. But if I am starting with wrong direction at the beginning
with this Yale lock all my efforts spent for nothing.
Thanks in advance.
Image
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bitbuster

Prolific Poster

Posts: 843

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:03 pm

Location: NW Wis

Post Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:03 pm

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Sequence: 4 Left, 3 RIGHT, 2 LEFT, 1 RIGHT.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-Safe ... l-safe.htm
'Gunter glieben glauten globen' Def Leppard, Rock of Ages, 1983
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penguin8

Newbie

Posts: 10

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:03 am

Location: Illinois

Post Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Thank you Bitbuster, I will continue to have fun ( torture myself ?) using seguence you provicded.
Does my cabinet has gear lock? Is there a same technique for manipulation using graph as for a lock with LCP and RCP?
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penguin8

Newbie

Posts: 10

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:03 am

Location: Illinois

Post Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Hi every one!
I am still working on lock ... :-)
Lock has so many sounds from mechanism inside. It makes it difficult to hear any important sounds.
Also CP are nor like a regular dial locks ( new ones), with stiff dial there are no way to feel it. the only chance to
find it is to hear it with the hearing device. Other sounds (from gears?) so loud compare to what I am assuming to be
contact points. Ear damaging experience.... CP sound so weak, I am not even sure if those are correct. They are becomming
less noticeable if you are dialing not just cam but a wheel also.
Just looked at the sequence suggested again:
Sequence: 4 Left, 3 RIGHT, 2 LEFT, 1 RIGHT.

this means lock has 3 wheels and the last 1RIGHT is a turn where the gate should drop? I am assuming 1 turn will be not
enough to engage the wheel. Am I correct? so I need to turn right until gate drops if
I got it correct. thank you. :safedial:
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penguin8

Newbie

Posts: 10

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:03 am

Location: Illinois

Post Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:44 pm

OPENED!!!VRe: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new mem

Thank you Bitbuster for your advice and link. Even without sharing most vital info for this kind of lock you saved me time or even made that possible.
I do not know if that is against of law to share critical info or it is just a code to new user but even little support and correct info can keep people
who is interesting with this great hobby on track. Thank you all.
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selim

User avatar

Diabolical Pinning Master & Lock Philanthropist
Diabolical Pinning Master & Lock Philanthropist

Posts: 410

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:31 am

Location: Maine

Post Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Nice safe, I think you'll find of great info. here - and Welcome to the Site
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penguin8

Newbie

Posts: 10

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:03 am

Location: Illinois

Post Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Hi everyone. I was not able to find detailed info on this kind of lock. Some people were looking for the information
on gear fence lock. NOt many pictures returned on google search. Just couple of pictures.
I had this cabinet in our office for more than decade and never was interested what is inside.
Now I was so thriled to discover that there is an original instructions. This piece of paper is more
than 70 years old and almost falling apart when you try to unfold. I am attaching image. I think it
will be a great gift for everyone who is enjoying those beautiful old locks.
I took lock apart and it is almost art piece :-) fine machinery, working smooth. beautiful.
Image
If anyone in this community can give me an advice about the cabinet. It was fine to have it
before but now I discovered it has asbestos inside. From your experience, should I have it
or should I call services to get rid of it? Is it safe to keep? should I just reseal the seams?
Question 2:
Nice safe, I think you'll find of great info. here - and Welcome to the Site

Link is not active. Cannot see what is under "here". Thanks.
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Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4412

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:17 am

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Hey, sorry I wasn't around to tryn' offer some help here.

But I'm very glad you shared the original paperwork. Very interesting. Thank you for that!

Yeah, the dialing sequence is opposite most modern day locks, ending with left to retract the bolt.
And yes, only one CP can be felt (usually around 0) and only when turning left (counter-clockwise).
To answer your question - yes, graphing is done exactly the same, regardless of one or two CP's.

The click you heard around 50 is likely from the drive cam gate coming in contact with a rather unique
re-locker (not shown in the lock photo on your paperwork). It sets in the bottom left of the lock case,
wraps around about 1/3 of the cam. It's spring-loaded and rides on the edge of the cam.

One of the 0C5's in my collection simply does not talk to me, even knowing the combination! lol
It's just that way - some of them are notoriously difficult to manipulate. It's great you found those
papers. Having now seen the insides and knowing the combo, maybe you can learn to crack it.

Some questions; I usually find the CP to be around 1 or 2. And the final turn to retract the bolt
usually brings the dial to a solid stop at 8. With your now functioning lock, could you verify this?
Also, for my own curiosity, what I said about the re-locker and what you heard at 50... is this the
case with your lock? Also curious what factory pre-set combos you came across. Care to share?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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penguin8

Newbie

Posts: 10

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:03 am

Location: Illinois

Post Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Thank you Oldfast, I red all your posts about combination lock manipulation and with few other sources I was able to learn manipulation for newer combo locks. It is not
working for me every single time, but in some cases I can do it successfully. Contact points much easier to read thank OC5. Other Problem was I didn't have a clue what kind of lock on my cabinet. I spent few month trying to apply regular techniques with no luck. Later I got an info that my lock could be a gear fence lock.
They also mentioned those are most difficult type of locks with different rules. It was the moment I was ready to give-up.
I decided to get some advice from experienced people. Bitbuster post was turning point. Starting from the scrach I collected only usefull info and was able to do that.

Yes, there is a solid stop around 8 or 10. That was a hint from link Bitbuster posted. and it happened as predicted. Terry confirmed that, he actually was right about
lock type.
Iam not sure about re-locker, I took lock apart but didn't pay attention on that, it was before your post.
I got more hearing than feeling of CP. I used hearing device. Dial is smooth but sometime if is not running smooth. Hard part is that those skip or tight spots every time on random part of the dial. So many sounds and feels from the dial.
Attached are few pix of interior. Wheels are attached to lid. you can see finishing job was done by hand. still precise unit.
Image
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Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4412

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:05 am

Re: Old fire cabinet with Yale lock ( from new member)

Beautiful pictures! Thank you. And they do confirm everything I was wondering.

Hope to hear more from you in the future about your progress with manipulation.

Keep at it! :D
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."

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